Should I tell my daughter's dad why she wanted to leave his house early?

[berrybonbon]

Long time lurker, first time post. For the first time in 2 years my Dd 11, had arranged to stay over at her dad's for the weekend so she could spend more time with half siblings and him, she normally goes one day every other weekend (her choice, as doesn't get on with step mum) she was very excited as she was dropped off this morning. This afternoon she messaged me to say she was unsure about staying over, so I called her to talk ( she refuses to talk to her dad about it as she's scared), to reassure her, I asked to speak to her dad to let him know what was going on, all very polite, explained she was worried as hadn't stayed over there for a while but she could come home if she wanted. Left it up to her, later this evening she came home, floods of tears as she came in as she had heard her dad and step mum bad mouthing me after the call and dad saying that I swore at him. This did not happen, both me and Dp were shocked as he was with me when I was on the phone to daughter's dad. Daughter's dad has a history of lying, he cheated on me with his now current wife and to justify this he told mutual friends and his family I was violent to him. Again this was not true and he is now estranged from his family and many mutual friends because they saw through the lies. So I suppose my aibu is do I tell him she wanted to come home because she heard him bad mouthing me again or not. She has also said she doesn't want to go around again.

I wouldn't unless she wants you to. She needs to know she can say anything to you without it getting back to him, (or anyone else for that matter.) One of the issues I have with my mother is that she doesn't keep anything I tell her to herself, so now I just don't tell her anything.

IF he really cares, he can build a relationship with her and ask her himself.

I'd say "as our daughter only sees you once every 2 weeks, could you keep your badmouthing about me during the other 13 days so she doesn't have to hear it. She was looking forward to staying at your house this weekend until she overheard you. Also, as you're lying about me cursing, all further communication between us can be through text and/or email."

I had similar with my dd’s father round about this age too . I took her lead, she didn’t want to see him but didn’t want him to know why , so I just kept making excuses , he did try calling her but she refused to answer. I got the backlash from him but took no notice. He took me to court and dd wrote the judge a letter explaining her reasons , nothing happened.
She decided a few years later to see him again but it was strictly on her terms ( she’d truly got the measure of him by then ) .

I'm curious about what made her call you in the first place, when she said she wasn't sure that staying there was a good idea. Did something happened there beforehand? I understand she wanted to leave after he bad mouthed you but that was after the phone call.

@SneezyGonzalez

Personally I wouldn’t engage with him, it’ll only add more fuel to the fire....I’m not sure what to suggest re DD seeing him - it sounds like she’s not that keen now anyway.

Also what an odd thing to do on his part. He has cheated on you, started a new relationship with OW and has kids with her yet he’s still trying to cause beef with you 🤷🏻‍♀️ If I were you I’d stay out of it completely and minimise your contact with him, no more phone calls, just brief text messages or emails. He’s still using you as a scapegoat.

I know it's so frustrating and I really don't get it, it's been 10 years, but he's still lying. I learnt the hard way he likes to get rises in people as it makes him feel in control, only problem is now he's involving my Dd.

@Notcontent

This is such a common thing. My dd, slightly older than yours, has also always been resistant to going to her dad’s house and does not stay the night. My exH doesn’t ever say anything bad about me in front of her, but her step mother has over the years made lots of negative comments, creating a very hostile environment.

It's so sad isn't it, in what should be their home from home. It helps knowing we're not alone.

Op I think your dd already knows her mind about him. She clearly sees
through him, but she needs time to process what that actually means. This is a clear example to her of his true colors. I would tell her the truth. Maybe that's what she actually wants to validate her feelings. She has the measure of him, she is experiencing it now for herself, so she deserves the truth. Sorry the poor girl has to go through this.

@Treemama

I'm curious about what made her call you in the first place, when she said she wasn't sure that staying there was a good idea. Did something happened there beforehand? I understand she wanted to leave after he bad mouthed you but that was after the phone call.

She was messaging first just saying she was worried and unsure about staying, I think because it had been so long, I called her to talk and reassure her. I then said this to her dad on her phone, so she was with him at the time.

Unfortunately you telling him will just make it worse

People like this can’t accept they are in the wrong and there is no reasoning

Explain to your dd that it’s not not behaviour and she is allowed to say that she finds it upsetting, she is allowed to ask to leave if she feels uncomfortable and finally

Tell your dd she is allowed to say

Mum doesn’t bad mouth you (obviously if that’s true) because she never talks about you at home

They can think everyone behaves as they do and shamed

You just telling him that she was unsure about staying made him act like an arse and bad mouth you. What do you think he will do if you tell him that you know what he did?

I wouldn’t engage any further in talking to him about what your dd heard as it will only lead to more grief. I think the best route is to keep it between you and dd and if he asks tell him she was just unsure about staying as it had been a long time. Keep all chat and contact with him to a minimum.

Then concentrate on giving her stability and safety at home with you. It sounds as if she has a good relationship with your dh so allow her to work on that and then her dad and his behaviour won’t affect her as much. I am saying this as someone who has been in your daughter’s shoes and my wonderful stepfather helped me so much.

One Friday night aged about 10 I walked into my dad and step-mum’s house, I was there for the weekend.
I hadn’t even got through the door and she screamed at me to get out. I’ve no idea why.
I never went to her house again, so she got what she wanted, but every Sunday from then on I went out with my dad.
So she didn’t have him every Sunday.

I was in a similar position to you about 10 years ago. My DS used to visit his dad (who lived 150 miles away) alternate weekends and during school holidays. Ex (also history of lying and twisting things) constantly changed plans at short notice and frequently threatened not to bring him back while also putting pressure on DS to say that he wanted to live with him. One Christmas (age 9) he went for his 5 day visit and within hours had called me to collect him as he didn't want to stay. He wouldn't (couldn't) say why, but he came home and refused to go visit again (which because of distance required overnight stay). Things deteriorated rapidly and after many phone calls where ex guilt tripped DS with a lot of emotional blackmail, DS went NC - refusing to even speak to him. At the age of 12 we all agreed that they'd try again and ex assured me he wouldn't put any pressure on DS, but within days of him returning, he'd started calling every day and pressuring him to say why he'd refused contact in previous years and lots of "what did daddy do wrong, I've been so sad". DS saw through this straight away and has refused visits or calls since. For a while he would only communicate by text - which over time became birthdays and Christmas' only. It came out years later that he'd overheard one of the phone conversations where ex had refused to bring him back. He's now 19 and has been completely NC for a couple of years. I've spoken to him about maybe trying to get to know his dad again, now that they're both adults, but as far as he's concerned his father is a stranger that he has no interest in getting to know.

It's been a rough ride and both of them have blamed me at different stages. My advice to you would be, that if your DD has a good relationship with her dad (despite all the other players), try to find the best way to maintain that - for her sake - even if that means humouring your ex for now. The thing I learned is that these kids will see through the BS quicker than you think and ultimately, they're not going to be kids forever and will make their own judgement in the long run.

@ClaryFairchild

You just telling him that she was unsure about staying made him act like an arse and bad mouth you. What do you think he will do if you tell him that you know what he did?

This is what I'm really worried about, during our divorce I called him out on his behaviour that's when he started telling the lies about me being violent.

@Dancingwithdreams

I think I wouldn’t say something because he is unlikely to change his behaviour so you are only potentially putting your DD in the crosshairs. Ring friends, rant and rave as you have every right to. But keep it calm with your DD. I’d tell her “you did the right thing, you can always come home. You never have to defend me to your dad. I’m a grown up. I love you” and leave it at that.

Dancing has it. This is by far the best response. In your ex you are to dealing with someone who has a normal rational response to anything so you cannot approach them with rational information. Do exactly what Dancing says and keep it between you and your daughter - you're her rock. Don't put her in harm's way by giving your ex information to twist and manipulate against her.

Only approach him in whatever detail you feel appropriate if your daughter agrees to it.

If he asks you just turn it on him "why do you think? Something happened at your house or she heard something and now she doesn't want to come again."

Play dumb like you don't know and back your DD 100%

He's an arse and your DD knows it.

100% what @peak2021 says . Please be guided by what your dd wants you to say, she needs to know that she can tell you things in confidence, if you tell her dad things that she doesn’t want you to, you can bet your bottom dollar her dad will take it out on her.

I'd definitely ask why he is lying? Let the seed of doubt start with his DW if he is a compulsive liar she will have had it at some point too.

We had in one sense a very different but in another sense an identical situation with DSD. We made her feel safe that nothing she shared would ever be repeated during a row. Her mother never stopped trying to create a tug of war but you can't do that if the other side won't pull on the rope. DSD learned we were totally reliable and wouldn't play the games her DM was trying to set up, and learned to trust us completely. DSD is a mother herself now and we're still very close.

Keep your DD's confidence. If your ex knows what she overheard he'll try to drag her into it. Last thing the poor child needs.

Keep it short and sweet but do say something..my ex is a compulsive liar, i would have turned a blind eye for a quiet life but learnt this made it worse...liars dont like being called up on their lies...if a child tells lies you pull them up or their lying will get worse..treat you ex the same...

Thank you all so much for your advice I really appreciate you giving me your time and thoughts. It was helpful to hear others experiences of having gone through this as children or with their own children. I've spoken to Dp as well and I spoken to Dd and told her I'm proud of her and that I was glad she felt able to talk to me. I've let her know the choice is still hers whether she goes round to her dads. I've decided it's best not to tell him, knowing him he'll twist it and it will cause no end of stress for Dd. Over the past 2 years she's certainly started to get the measure of him, he'll probably end up destroying what relationship she has left with him. All I and dp can do is continue to be here for her.

i think it is best not said, from you at least.

its so tricky for them having to sort what effectively are adult emotions when their minds are still so young and they have already dealt with alot with parents separating and new people in their lives. I wish more help was available for them in terms of counselling and coaching to help manage it all

I’d tell her “you did the right thing, you can always come home. You never have to defend me to your dad. I’m a grown up. I love you” and leave it at that.

Whilst I know what you mean, it’s not a good idea to pretend this type of behaviour is acceptable, so I’d explain that in this instance his words can’t hurt you as you’re not hearing them. It’s obviously upsetting for the child & never underestimate that hurt

We can’t control the situation, but we can assist our children to manage the situation wisely and often beyond their years. Give them the empowerment to say that’s not acceptable and don’t talk about my parent whilst I’m here.