Father has stolen from sibling

[memorielle]

My DF has always been a thief, even as a kid. He was an abusive bastard as a dad too, and we were all terrified of him and carry the lasting legacy of what he did to our self esteem. Sadly, like many kids who had a terrifying parent, all of us still talk to him and feel uneasy about cutting him out of our lives. Guilty almost. Pathetic. But it's how it is.

It's giving me anxiety just to think about doing this, because even though he wouldn't come for me now as an adult, it's like there's a little kid inside who is still paralysed with fear at the thought of provoking him..... but I have found out that he has stolen from one of my siblings. I won't say what as it's very outing... but it's something that would have middling value to him if he sold it, but is priceless to my sibling because of what it represents to them.

Do I take back the item and return it to my sibling, or do I tell my sibling he has the item and let them ask for it back? He will lie about having it. He's stolen from people before and will absolutely brazen it out and make you feel like absolute scum for even suggesting he could be so terrible.

Take it back. Your father is evil to do that. You owe him no loyalty. It hurts I know, but he will never change
The only power he has over you is the power you allow him to have. You deserve better than that

Next time you go, take it back for your sibling, it will mean so.much to him.

I personally wouldn’t take it. It won’t end well for you whatever the outcome. Protect yourself first.
If you feel awful knowing this information and not doing anything then tell your sibling you saw x at your fathers house and do they still have theirs?
It won’t take much for your father to work out who it was if it goes missing around the time you’ve had access to his home.

I would tell your sibling before you go there on Tuesday. They can then check if it's missing (of course it is but clears up any of this you might get into trouble/you are the thief nonsense) and then ask them what they want to do about it. Do they want you to get it back for them when you next go there or do they want to go round and sort it themselves.

Take it and return it, then play your Dad at his own game and completely deny taking it. Lie to him with a face of baffled innocence, why would Sibling's Item be in your house anyway etc.

I would not take it. I would photograph it where it is and send the photo to your sibling to do what they choose*. They can go to the police if they want.
If you have an iPhone it will date, time and place the photo- so it will be proof that your dad stole it. If you return it, it's your word against his.
Always back yourself up with evidence with this type of fucker. Do no harm and take no shit.

@AStudyinPink

Because it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it belongs to my sibling. There's no question. Would I get into trouble still?

But can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it still belongs to your sibling? Things change hands.

The thing to do here is - if it is that important to you and your sibling - ask for it back or report it. Don’t go snooping through your horrible dad’s attic, it could backfire.

It still wouldn’t be theft because the OP believes the item belongs to her sibling and she is returning it to them. For the crime of theft you actions have to be knowingly dishonest. Well intentioned but mistaken does not make you a thief.

It still wouldn’t be theft because the OP believes the item belongs to her sibling and she is returning it to them. For the crime of theft you actions have to be knowingly dishonest. Well intentioned but mistaken does not make you a thief.

I don’t know about that. It still isn’t hers.

Definitely speak to your sibling and both of you go and confront your father, Take the item back and then go no contact. He doesn’t deserve you I just his life!

I would take it back to its rightful owner.

@AStudyinPink

It still wouldn’t be theft because the OP believes the item belongs to her sibling and she is returning it to them. For the crime of theft you actions have to be knowingly dishonest. Well intentioned but mistaken does not make you a thief.

I don’t know about that. It still isn’t hers.

It’s in the theft act, so easy enough to look up (also, I used to be a police officer, so this is bread and butter!).

Theft is defined as
“A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it”

So all those things - dishonesty, appropriation, intention to permanently deprive - need to happen for something to be theft. If one of them isn’t true, it isn’t theft.

And the law goes on to define each of those terms. Under dishonesty it specifically says:
“(1)A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest—
(a)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person“

So if the “OP” believes the item belongs to her sibling, And that her father has taken it unlawfully, she believes she has the right to return it to her sibling. If it turns out she’s wrong about any of that it doesn’t alter the fact she believed it at the time and so her action was not dishonest and so was not theft. Of course she could be sued for the item by her father if it turns out it’s actually his. But she’d presumably be able to give it back to him if that did turn out to be the case.

NC is a fantastic release. Take the item, return it, tell them all. Then NC DF.

I still say don't touch it It's not your responsibility to fix this. Take a photo of it where it is and let your sibling decide how they want to handle this.
Why you want to be a go between is beyond me. How are you going to be a go between without possibly implicating yourself?

BoomBoomsCousin

Fair enough! I still think the OP should stay out of it.

There's no way he's going to go to the police. Take the item and give it back to your sibling. Deny everything to your dad and go very low contact to prevent him kicking off.

If you know he steals make sure you get hidden cameras in your homes before he next comes round.

I’m imagining something like a Pride of Britain award or an OBE medal.

I would take it back. Don’t much about with photos and proof or he’ll have time to sell it or hide it. Go in there, put it in your bag and leave with your head held high. He’s a scumbag.

I would take it and just say it wasn’t there.

Dysfunctional parents require us to sometimes behave in ways we would not. I would not feel one but badly about taking it back to my sibling.

Having a father that would do this is terrible. Having a sibling that would help right it makes it less terrible that one’s father is terrible.

Your father may ask you about it. More likely he will not ask you about it because he stole it in the first place. He’d have to admit he stole it in order to accuse you of taking it, right?

He sounds like he's used to getting away with things and expects not to be challenged, hence why the object is on display as if its a trophy he wants seen. (A show of power perhaps?) Or perhaps he's a narcissist who feels entitled to other people's stuff?
Either way, OP you're popping round to help out someone you're scared of- and that's not good. Its good you're talking. You need some support with this abusive parent.

Of course you should take it back to your sibling. I am sorry that you have had to put up with this for so long. Please consider ceasing to do so, your life will be better for it.

Take it back... if he threatens you.. hit 999 🌺

Take it and return it. If he knows he stole it then he's hardly going to demand it back.

I know this isn’t the point of the thread - and agree you should return it or tell the sibling so they can get it back - but I have a good idea about what the object is.

The problem with taking it back is that "df" can lie and say he was set up. How are you going to prevent that?
I would advise you to take an incriminating photo of you with the pet you took to the vets with the "item" included deliberately in the photo. That way it's documented that it was there. If you decide to remove it after that at least you have hard evidence of where and when you removed it.

Take it back and deny you ever saw it.
If he kicks off call the Police.