To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

[LastDuchessFerrara]

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

@Kendodd

The best suggestion I heard for funding elder care was (I think from the LibDems) a 2% death tax on the whole of the estate of anyone who dies over retirement age. 'Free' care, either at home or in house, so no other care fees, well, unless I suppose you want some five star celebrity home.

So regardless of whether you die one day or 25 years after retirement age 2% of your estate goes to the government? That's terrible. Isn't it bad enough that we pay inheritance tax? You want a death tax too?

FloorisLavaI know it can be much worse, short term memory is gone completely BTW, I'm just saying that it can still be a life when people are so quick to write their future selves or anyone with dementia off as a pointless life.

On one level I agree with op, but imagine two families earning similar amounts, one is a spender, the other a saver. How’s it fair if one gets funded and the other doesn’t. Similarly many people don’t need care but some could need it for 20 years, in the extreme. I think some sort of insurance through the state is necessary.

So regardless of whether you die one day or 25 years after retirement age 2% of your estate goes to the government? That's terrible. Isn't it bad enough that we pay inheritance tax? You want a death tax too?
Yes.
Basically it's just luck if you need care or not so some people end up spending every penny they have, others spend nothing, this way would even things out. It becomes sort of insurance in reverse.

@rawalpindithelabrador

I think assisted suicide should be legalised.

Agree.. I know it's a can of worms but it could be legally defined for use in good judgement and faith, when there no longer is a reasonable quality of life left. It's necessary in ageing populations and longer life expectancy and diminished public funds...

I agree about assisted suicide but diminished public funds.. surely should never be a consideration on this.

Oh and personally I think the only/main reason we have diminished public funds is because we've had massively increasing private funds.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I know I keep saying it, but please don't right off everyone living with dementia as not having a life worth living. My DDad was diagnosed 10 years ago and is still with it in terms of conversation, doesn't mix up our names, is loved and loving, adored his GC and meeting people and church etc. He lives with plenty of care and support in his own home. His life is as precious to him as mine is to me.

What you’re talking about is the very early stages. My mum died of dementia and I’m sorry to say, you have a very rough road ahead of you. Come back in a few years time and tell us life with dementia is one worth living. I loved my mother more than words can say, I was willing her to go at the end.

I agree.

Of course it should be a consideration.

@notdaddycool

On one level I agree with op, but imagine two families earning similar amounts, one is a spender, the other a saver. How’s it fair if one gets funded and the other doesn’t. Similarly many people don’t need care but some could need it for 20 years, in the extreme. I think some sort of insurance through the state is necessary.

This 👆🏼 The current system feels really unfair. Everything my dad worked for is being spent on my mum’s care. As he’s not rolling in it so there could easily be nothing left. Whereas someone who has spent every penny would have their care funded by the state. It really doesn’t encourage people to be prudent and save for their future.

Frankly I’d consider selling up and spending everything in one mad splurge. Can’t give what little we have to the kids or the local authorities can use their powers to go after them for it. (Which pisses me right off.)

It’s only unfair in as much as life is generally unfair. If I need care I’m going to be very pleased that I have the means to pay for a decent well-staffed care home and not the shithole the local council would deem suitable.

Why on earth would I expect the taxpayer to fund me so I can leave money to my kids who don’t need it? Frankly I’m astonished that people spend their lives working to leave money to their kids. I’ve done it for me, it’s my money and they can have what’s left when I don’t need it any more.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I know I keep saying it, but please don't right off everyone living with dementia as not having a life worth living. My DDad was diagnosed 10 years ago and is still with it in terms of conversation, doesn't mix up our names, is loved and loving, adored his GC and meeting people and church etc. He lives with plenty of care and support in his own home. His life is as precious to him as mine is to me.

Yes, this! Dementia dies not mean no quality of life or nothing to give

Whereas someone who has spent every penny would have their care funded by the state. It really doesn’t encourage people to be prudent and save for their future You get what you pay for, care funded by the state is below standard I'd bet the old people who end up there didn't live it up for years throwing away cash they were mostly stuck in the poverty trap their entire lives...Shit start shit end.

@VinylDetective

It’s only unfair in as much as life is generally unfair. If I need care I’m going to be very pleased that I have the means to pay for a decent well-staffed care home and not the shithole the local council would deem suitable.

Why on earth would I expect the taxpayer to fund me so I can leave money to my kids who don’t need it? Frankly I’m astonished that people spend their lives working to leave money to their kids. I’ve done it for me, it’s my money and they can have what’s left when I don’t need it any more.

I’d rather my kids had the money than it go to line the pockets of some unscrupulous care home owner. But honestly, if I succumb to dementia I’d much prefer to be put out of my misery. I’ve seen first hand what a terrible affliction it is.

One of the care homes we looked at for mum wanted to know if we were good for £200k before they would consider accepting her. And if we could only manage say £180k it would need to go to the board to decide if they’d take the risk. We looked elsewhere because they were so blatantly venal.

But honestly, if I succumb to dementia I’d much prefer to be put out of my misery. I’ve seen first hand what a terrible affliction it is

Me too. But realistically it’s not going to happen unless we legalise assisted suicide and MPs seem to be fairly squeamish about that.

Old age care should be fully funded.
Every other illness or medical need is free at point of use. Why should old age care be different.
We get free cancer treatment, free treatment for every manner of avoidable lifestyle related illness, free maternity care. There is free care and treatment available for people with disabilities.

Why should people who have probably paid most into the system suddenly not qualify and get fleeced for end of life care, when a younger person gets free treatment.
Free at point of need care should be for everybody. It says something horrible about our society that it isnt

Sorry you lost your parents younger OP, but would your stance be exactly the same if you watching every penny that your parents worked for going on care?

Yes. That's my point. You work and pay taxes (or don't). Then you get a state pension to live on together with other pensions/savings. You carry on paying your way. And if the time comes when you need carers (or a care home) you pay for that. You don't say "I'm keeping my money because I want to pass it onto my kids."

And no I didn't receive an inheritance.

The vast majorit

I know he's lucky in his decline vinyl, did you see where I said he was diagnosed 10 years ago? It's moderate, not mild or early stages. He's very elderly now so I hope he will be spared the hardest part. My point is that if he'd ended it or seen life as not worth living he'd have missed 10 years that have actually been very precious in many ways. As I say short term memory shot completely and he doesn't know he has it, no point reminding him, but he is still living. I'm sorry your mum went through that, my DM had a different degenerative disease, I know how horrendous it can be.

Old age care should be fully funded.
Every other illness or medical need is free at point of use

The difference with old age care though is that it's also residential. I don't think its unreasonable to expect some 'rent' from the old person. I agree though that the care part should be free at point of use though. The question still remains, how do you fund it. I made a suggestion, 2% death tax on all estates of pensioners regardless of care used or not. Baby boomers as a group (I know not all) have the money, they are the riches generation in history (good for them, this is great news) but the generation after them is predicted to be poorer, they absolutely should not have to pay for the richer generations care, we can't just keep putting more costs on the young, it's so unfair.

If posters don't like the 2% death tax, please suggest a better alternative. As for 'it's not fair' no it's not fair somebody should lose every penny to care, death tax would get rid of that. Also it's not fair some people need years of care and some people are fit until they're 90, without care, then die suddenly in their sleep, never having needed a day of care. Again a death tax tries to even that unfairness out.

You can't fully fund old age care - everyone / every family would want their money's worth and older people who need a bit of support from families, though this can be to the detriment of the family (usually one member) would get pushed towards the state. Everyone would be demanding umpteen visits a day from care workers as their right.

If I think I’m going to need care I’ll spend every penny I have.

Just thinking aloud here...

How about "foster" carers for the elderly?

Subject to regular welfare checks and protections re financial coercion etc.

@kendodd it's the same old problem. People think the state should fund care along as they don't have to pay more tax. And if "yuppies" move into their parents area and push prices up then they truly believe they deserve every penny of that unearned wealth as an inheritance.
There are only 2 options ' more tax and Scandinavian style social services or pay yourself. You cannot have fully state funded car in our current low tax system. Anf as for care homes raking it in, the sector has a really high bankruptcy rate. My MIL has occasional respite care and the last 2 homes she has been in have both closed due to bankruptcy.

@BLToutanowhere

Just thinking aloud here...

How about "foster" carers for the elderly?

Subject to regular welfare checks and protections re financial coercion etc.

Lovely idea in theory. They have similar for adults with disabilities, well I know they have it for young adults (called shared lives in our area).

I’m not sure realistically enough people would want to do it though. The type of payments received by foster carers and shared lives carers certainly wouldn’t be enough for me to be a ‘foster carer’ for an older person with 24/7 needs.

I guess even if you provided it for an elderly person whose needs were lower they could easily increase quickly with a fall or deterioration.

I’d rather they provided better financial support for family members who want to care for their relatives. I’m sure more would if they were financially able to. I wouldn’t want to care for my parents full time but even if I did want to I simply wouldn’t be able to afford to give up work to care for them, however £800 a month might make caring for them possible financially (not that I think that’s a reasonable wage for 24/7 care) and cheaper than a care home.

I wonder if any elderly parents sell their home to fund their children being able to look after them? Eg to allow them to purchase a larger home and pay some home care privately?