To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

[LastDuchessFerrara]

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

Vinyl detective I agree.

I wish they’d pay a better wage for people who want to be family carers. I’m sure more families would care for their elderly relatives if the financial support was better and I’m sure that would still be less than the weekly/monthly cost of care home.

Obviously some still won’t want to/ be able to care for elderly relatives (I certainly don’t want to). However it seems sad that those that might want to aren’t offered anywhere near enough pay/benefits to make it doable, yet the local authority them ends up paying hun dreads to a residential home.

I think that the majority of people still die before going into a care home though. Not everyone’s savings (if they have any) are eaten up by carehome fees.

Personally, I’d expect to pay. I would prefer my money and assets to go to my DC, but my assets are mine while I’m alive and primarily there to fund me and my needs. I agree about having money giving you choice of home or Carers and that actually being worth a lot.

Also, if you’re in your late 70s and have shed loads of money, starting to give it away to relatives isn’t a bad thing if you don’t need it. If you survive 7 years it will be inheritance free/not part of calculations if you need care beyond that point. And you get to enjoy seeing family enjoy it. Obviously only suitable for those with plenty of money which will be surplus to requirements, having left some as well for at least a period of carehome fees.

I would not say accept it, but I think it may be the reality.

I don't think we should have to accept that as an inevitability. Like other posters, I would rather have access to euthanasia.

I think it would really piss me off to have to sell the home I raised my family in, just some I could afford to live for three years in some weird quasi-hospital where the highlight of my day is watching Bargain Hunt!

I agree people should have the option for euthanasia but I’m uncomfortable with it being linked to cost of care.

I think it is fine for people with enough money to fund their own care to do so. The government should accept that everybody should have have the right to dignity and care in old age, on the basis that you pay what you can afford. No one has a right to inherit money and better to use it for care if you can. Sooner or later no one will have any extra ...the trickle down of wealth will dry up so there might as well be systems and pay structures that improves care worker conditions and makes old age care more rewarding, they can’t have it both ways

I agree people should have the option for euthanasia but I’m uncomfortable with it being linked to cost of care.

Why? As long as euthanasia is a choice then I don't understand this because I would only want euthanasia if I were unable to care for myself and had to pay for care. I don't want someone else wiping my bottom or feeding me or even making sure I don't fall over. At that point, in my view, I will have outlived my usefulness and why should I pay for something I don't want? I'd rather that money go to the usefully living. I absolutely intend to leave my children with a leg-up, why else do I work, give them as many opportunities as possible and make sure they are being well-educated?

@Enb76 I guess because I think euthanasia should be a proper choice. I worry that people might choose euthanasia just because they can’t afford decent care or because they have pressure from their family who want inheritance.

I think the point about cost influencing the decision is a good one.

I would not want to 'waste' £50k/yr on funding my place in a care home, just so I could sit around watch daytime TV. But would I keep living that lifestyle if it only cost me £5k/yr? Yes, I think I probably would.

Could you purchase long-term care insurance?

Sure, I really want to spend all my money on existing in pain and indignity in a crappy care home whilst my autistic son is chucked out onto the streets.

When are they going to introduce assisted dying? I suppose they need to keep privately paying clients alive because they subsidise the council residents via higher fees. Lovely. I'll be glad to subsidise strangers whilst my son ends up on the streets.

@steff13

Could you purchase long-term care insurance?

Unfortunately it’s not available now. It was one of the proposals in the Dilnot report, I think it’s a good idea - although I suspect the premiums would be pretty high.

I often think this when I see threads about inheritance and posters saying “I’m due an inheritance” or “my step-kids will be getting an inheritance” when the reality is people have no idea how much of that inheritance they are expecting will be take up by care costs.

I think there will eventually be a lot of threads complaining about care home costs and not getting a big enough inheritance.

@AlwaysCheddar

If I get a stage where I don’t have a clue what planet I’m on, id rather someone put a pillow over my face than pay thousands on a grotty nursing home.

I agree! My dad was in a care home for 18 miserable months and the final bill was 80k for quite basic care. He didn't have a house to sell so it was all savings etc. Dementia patients are treated as second class citizens as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't want to live like it but the euthanasia question is another thread entirely. I couldn't care for my dad. I felt guilty about this and I still do even though he had now died. The care home were good , but it is a lot of money! Not everyone has houses big enough for granny / grandad flats attached or whatever!

I agree with @BigWoollyJumpers

But it’s a complex issue, and an emotional one. Ticking time bombs indeed with under saving by those who’ll need a private pension in 30+ years time, and an inability to get on the property ladder.

To those saying they’ll spend loads before needing a care home: beware. Local authorities take a dim view if it looks like you’ve deliberately hidden or given away all your assets to avoid paying for care, and many local authority funded care home places really aren’t that great. I’d rather end my days somewhere nicer, if possible. Though I know most of us if we had the choice would always want to go at home, with family round the bedside and no pain.

My DGran died a few years ago after 18 months in a lovely home with outings etc. It cost £4K a month. To pay for it she sold her bungalow and used my late DGFs pension to cover the cost. There was a decent pot left for family, but we just wanted her to be well cared for.

The homes with nice furnishings and sherry at 6pm wouldn’t touch mil with a barge pole
as awful as it is you can see why:(

But what about all the thousands of people who die having paid into a pension and no one gets the benefit?

My parents worked their whole lives in the NHS....40 years pension. He died shortly after retirement....after 3 months they cut his pension in two for my mum and then both his and hers was lost when she died not long after.

80 years contribution for nothing. Its no wonder people dont want to save for their later years.

@Willyoujustbequiet

But what about all the thousands of people who die having paid into a pension and no one gets the benefit?

My parents worked their whole lives in the NHS....40 years pension. He died shortly after retirement....after 3 months they cut his pension in two for my mum and then both his and hers was lost when she died not long after.

80 years contribution for nothing. Its no wonder people dont want to save for their later years.

This is also true. Nobody knows how long we will live, hence the reason that life insurance policies are win win for the insurance companies involved. It's always ' what if' ?

life insurance policies are win win for the insurance companies involved
the house always wins, if it couldn't win it wouldn't want to be the house!

It must be frustrating though to be in a not so nice home if you are subsidising someone else who is funded by the council at a lower rate

As long as euthanasia is a choice then I don't understand this because I would only want euthanasia if I were unable to care for myself and had to pay for care

This assumes that the person requesting euthanasia isn't being subjected to abuse by family or partner, coercive control, or other kind of external malign influence.

You only have to read the Relationships board, or even AIBU to see how many husbands try to control their wives and families for selfish ends.

@woodhill

It must be frustrating though to be in a not so nice home if you are subsidising someone else who is funded by the council at a lower rate

It doesn’t happen nearly as much as MN would have you believe. As I said, the care homes here have waiting lists of self funders so they have no need to accept council funded residents.

I want my home to go to my kids not to fund care home fees. If someone has cancer they would have the fees paid for and dementia patients usually get nothing.
I know I sound very selfish and the chances are my home will have to fund care, but it is an uneven playing field and really unfair.
We know people who are now very rich from home equity from their parents and not had to pay any fees at all ! I know life isn't fair , but dementia is as much a disease as cancer and treated completely differently and someone with it can live for decades hence the reason it's seen as a ' cash cow' unfortunately! Sorry to sound bitter I know that I am lucky to be a home owner but it's been a slog and all I have!

@Willyoujustbequiet

But what about all the thousands of people who die having paid into a pension and no one gets the benefit?

My parents worked their whole lives in the NHS....40 years pension. He died shortly after retirement....after 3 months they cut his pension in two for my mum and then both his and hers was lost when she died not long after.

80 years contribution for nothing. Its no wonder people dont want to save for their later years.

Do you think you should get their pension once they died?