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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are we know in a totalitarian regime or something?

347 replies

Lastfreakinglegs · 09/02/2021 21:37

10 years in prison for a lie. Of course a lie a out this is reprehensible, but..... Wtf.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-travel-rules-red-list-prison-b1799698.html

OP posts:
CutePixie · 11/02/2021 07:48

[quote Lastfreakinglegs]@Scbchl exactly. Plus rapists get less as well as manslaughter. Wtf is going on. I'm shocked.[/quote]
I’m shocked too. Idk what’s more disturbing, the fact the government have decided to do this or how some members of the public are happy with these dystopian laws. We’ve fought for millennia for our liberties, and yet people are so happy to give them all up.

Francescaisstressed · 11/02/2021 07:50

It's up to 10 years.
Noone has yet been charged - and I feel even if they were they wouldn't get that sentence. It's just to act as a deterrent.

Createsuser · 11/02/2021 08:24

The UK seems to be unaware that 95% of countries aren’t in lockdown. We have roughly the same amount of deaths as the US which has been not locked down for most of the time. Exports are down 68%, the economy is wrecked, now the banking sector is taking a hit and yet the insistence on following lockdown continues. I read today until May which is very different to the end date of March. Lockdown itself was based on a false prediction of 5000 deaths a day which the regulator had to tell the government off for. I’ve had Covid as have many people I know and it was like bad flu. Surely the first priority is protecting us from economic disaster?

unmarkedbythat · 11/02/2021 08:50

I’ve had Covid as have many people I know and it was like bad flu

And?

Mif4 · 11/02/2021 09:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

TooTrueToBeGood · 11/02/2021 09:23

[quote Lastfreakinglegs]@Jackieweaver2024 but what if someone made a genuine mistake on their form. What if someone misinterpreted the rules. The possibility of injustice is extensive.[/quote]
What if we had a judicial system where people were entitled to a fair trial and the right to legal defense?

What if, for almost every offense, the courts have quite a lot of discretion when it comes to sentencing and don't just hand out the maximum possible tariff for every conviction?

Oh wait, we do have those things. This thread is just teeth-gnashing nonsense.

Createsuser · 11/02/2021 09:46

The Daily Mash is doing an amazing job of documenting the absurdity of life today whilst holding those in power to account and is extremely funny too. Credit where credit is due.

Createsuser · 11/02/2021 09:49

Even today I noticed that ministers are trying to increase their power over NHS- see articles in the Guardian etc.

MarieG10 · 11/02/2021 10:20

The whole thing is absurd and being driven by the media showing all the lives of the rich and famous who the rules don't seems to apply to showing their bodies off in Dubai etc. As a number of Conservative MPs have said, no one is going to get more than a heavy fine so is purely for public consumption and to try and get around celebs just seeing the fine as a business expense.

I think it wouldn't be as bad if the government had shown some morality over the legislative process around Covid. Using the Health Protection regulations is disingenuous and denies Parliament the right to scrutinise which it would have done if they had used the legislation already in place, names the Civil Contingencies act.

I am a convert to having a written constitution after this

GreenlandTheMovie · 11/02/2021 10:46

[quote tatutata]@GreenlandTheMovie I grew up in Germany. I am struggling also to get my head around the complacency. We had this stuff drummed into us all the way through school, we were given copies of the constitution and had whole terms devoted to the separation of powers. Germany has also enacted plenty of covid legislation, but nearly all of it under state law, because the government does not have the constitutional power to do so. I have written to my MP to point out that at no point has Germany suspended the right to protest. We have. That single fact is the one i find by far the most worrying. I also think its mainly a function of a weak government, not some grand plan, but that's almost worse.[/quote]
Yes, Britain is definately the outlier here.

I do think this country has gone a bit crazy. Its what happens when the mildly incompetent get power. They are so afraid of their incompetence being uncovered that they go slightly mad, wielding power heavy-handedly.

I am so fed up of being "told" that various unelected experts are brilliant and cannot be challenged. Locking down everything and everyone diesnt require sone siecial skill. What would be skillful would be treading a path between lockdiwns and keeping society and the economy open.

Of course we should have a single document written modern constitution. No one even knows what the constitution is exactly in Britain at any given time, hence the Miller cases on Brexit. What's really scary is that in Scotland, some of the unwritten checks and balances that form part of the British constitution aren't part of the devolution settlement and the Scottish government in all their talk about indeoendence, make no reference to a Scottish constitution or joining the ECHR.

Createsuser · 11/02/2021 12:20

I feel betrayed- in brief
Unconstitutional behaviour
Rights eroded
Contracts given to friends of government
False and misleading info
Constant scaremongering
Moving goalposts - causing hundreds of thousands to cancel holidays or have to arrange childcare at the drop of a hat
No understanding of the industries now dying or the millions unemployed
Criminalising every day activities
As another poster said- demanding we trust the word of unqualified experts, or fake projections
But mostly the knowledge that they don’t care at all
Today ministers are doing a power grab for power in the NHS- what will it be tomorrow?

snowydaysandholidays · 11/02/2021 12:25

Honestly if you are THAT bothered by the developments, the great news is that we have free and fair elections. So if this government hasn't rowed back the emergency laws and restrictions by then, you are very very welcome to vote for the party that will!

That is why it is great to live in a democracy.

So just chill and be reasured that no one government has that much power for that long. Now if we were in Russia, China, NK or other such places yes you would have good reason to be extremely sad...but as such as we are good. Honestly.

Createsuser · 11/02/2021 12:26

I should qualify that to they don’t appear to care about what certain industries are going through or how the average person feels. It might be that they don’t care but it’s not an image that is projected

Chanjer · 11/02/2021 12:30

Something often repeated on this thread and others is the idea that this is a once in a lifetime thing

Anyone in their 70s now this is their 3rd major pandemic they've lived through. If anyone is 103 is on their 4th

Massive pandemics are not really as rare as we'd all like to think. The majority of people born in the last 100 years or so has lived through multiple

Pan2 · 11/02/2021 12:33

We ARE in a right wing British coup scenario. COVID just accentuated it.

When the pandemic excesses are over...we will still have Johnson and the rest of the ghouls removing any opposition, by stealthy and by clear and obvious methods.

GreenlandTheMovie · 11/02/2021 12:37

@snowydaysandholidays

Honestly if you are THAT bothered by the developments, the great news is that we have free and fair elections. So if this government hasn't rowed back the emergency laws and restrictions by then, you are very very welcome to vote for the party that will!

That is why it is great to live in a democracy.

So just chill and be reasured that no one government has that much power for that long. Now if we were in Russia, China, NK or other such places yes you would have good reason to be extremely sad...but as such as we are good. Honestly.

There isn't a sensible alternative. Keir Starker could have made a very good political point yesterday when interviewed about the 10 year maximum sentence on the news. Using his legal knowledge, he could have pointed out all the standard legal points that any lawyer educated in constitutional law and with a healthy respect for good governance could have made. Instead, he actually defended the government by saying the maximum sentence would be little used. There is no decent opposition in this country. Positions of power are so filled with cronies that they are all afraid to rock the boat. Being in opposition is actually quite a nice life.

And if you're resorting to comparing the UK with North Korea, China and the former USSR, instead of Switzerland, Germany, France, etc, that isn't much of a standard! That's actually laughable, or it would be if it wasn't so sad.

Failing to educate children and students, preventing people from seeing what life is like in other countries and giving too much power to unelected government favoured "experts" is actually very reminusent of a totalitarian state.

Timbucktime · 11/02/2021 12:40

It is very concerning, but even more concerning is the number of people who are happy about it.

unmarkedbythat · 11/02/2021 12:44

all the standard legal points that any lawyer educated in constitutional law and with a healthy respect for good governance could have made

But he is a lawyer, educated and with an apparent respect for good governance. He may not share your opinion on this particular issue, but with the greatest respect, so what?

Pan2 · 11/02/2021 12:47

Tim, yep, the supine response of the GBP to economic devastation and the herd-immunity approach of the tories MUST make them gleeful.
Just what will they be allowed to get away with?

IF there were a plan to ruin a country....this would be it.

snowydaysandholidays · 11/02/2021 12:49

This thread is utterly hysterical and insane. I am putting it down to lockdown madness.

We are going to be just fine folks, but we really do need to get very serious about borders and international travel, and this is all good. Australia and NZ and so many other countries have already done the same, so I am chilled even if you are not. Just sounds like a political score pointing on the thread, and a waste of energy as even the opposition supports it.

Most people on this thread are not informed enough or privy to the SAGE internal discussions to know what is coming down the track, or the reasons why such care is being taken to protect the country. You know very little which is why it seems draconian, maybe it would not look so draconian if you knew the full facts.

Pan2 · 11/02/2021 12:51

snow - you must be either a tory 'placed person' OR embarrassingly naive for an adult.

Fridget · 11/02/2021 12:56

It’s clearly excessive in almost every case, and Keir Starmer is right it would be little used, but given it takes just one person to lie, not quarantine and import a vaccine resistant strain, which could cost God knows how many thousands of lives, result in another lockdown and all the associated misery - I actually think lying about this is extremely serious and a high maximum sentence is warranted. Maybe not 10 years but then again the potential damage outweighs most other crimes.

What do people think an appropriate sentence would be for someone who lied and therefore introduced a vaccine resistant strain into the UK putting us back to square one?

GreenlandTheMovie · 11/02/2021 12:57

@unmarkedbythat

all the standard legal points that any lawyer educated in constitutional law and with a healthy respect for good governance could have made

But he is a lawyer, educated and with an apparent respect for good governance. He may not share your opinion on this particular issue, but with the greatest respect, so what?

He is talking as a politician. He's a good lawyer, but no, he didn't even raise the legal concerns that lawyers in any country in his position would have raised.

Its not even standard for UK lawyers to do masters degrees. It is everywhere else. Instead, we rush them straight into practice at 22/23 years old, far far away from anythibg more than a cursory brush through the more extensive legal education that is common everywhere else. Well, except the middle east and other sharia law regimes. I'll give you that.

snowydaysandholidays · 11/02/2021 13:03

pan whatever pan, dig out the tin foil hat and keep posting. I am out. Hysterical nonsense.

crazyontheweekend · 11/02/2021 13:07

This thread is actually the MOST sane thing I’ve read on MN in relation to Covid.

It cheers me to read that many many people out there are actually questioning the sense of the extreme restrictions we’ve had placed on us for nearly a year now.

Thank goodness. The passivity of people frightens me more than Covid.