To wonder why i'm not succesful at work?

[malificent7]

I grew up with a strong work ethic, worked really hard at GCSEs and Alevels. Parents wanted me to be a doctor but i wanted to find my own path.
I was bullied really badly at school and after Alevels / start of degree my mh really started to decline. Ended up in hospital etc.
Despite this , i retrained as a teacher but I had a really hard time with people/ politics in placement and on my first job when I got pregnant which escalated into massive drama as usual due to mh.

I soldiered on in teaching after dd was born but ultimately the stress got to me.
I am now retraining in NHS and i love the course but on placements ive had a really hard time with people.
It's like my face never seems to fit, i get very anxious around people and i get bullied a lot. I did have one teaching job where i fitted very well and staff liked me but they couldn't guarentee the contract so i had to move on. Plus the kids were horrid to me.

@malificent7

Of course i look at internal sources too...hence therapy, medication etc. I always ask for feedback and do weekly reflective journals...i didn't find it easy at first but easier now. The reason why i don't think i came across as a know all in that situation is that myself and another colleague identified theatre as a weak spot that i needed to work on...i was just being super keen to go up to theatre that day to learn more. If that makes me a know all then i'll own that!

Ok, so to me that sounds like a friendly comment reflecting on how very keen you were to get theatre experience. Not the massive put down you turned it into.

Therapy, medication, weekly reflective journals, constantly asking for feedback... is there a possibility you are just really overthinking everything. I have had a colleague who was 'excessively' self reflective and thought she had a really high level of self awareness. In reality she was very hard work as she wanted constant feedback and to discuss everything to the nth degree. Her intentions were good but the fact was in the public sector few people let alone managers have the time available for that level of navel gazing and as a result she did annoy several members of the team.

I can be a know all on the couse but at the same time, how can you come across as knowledgable / confident / sell yourself at interview without being a know all?

We have to do reflection every week ...its part of the course!

Yes...i have no idea why in saw it as a put down!!

I'm going to repeat a couple of PPs and suggest autism with a possible addition of ADHD.

Some of what you're saying chimes with me. People pleasing, vulnerable to bullies, not able to progress at work as others seem able to, like people and get along with them on one level while apparently having some quality that makes friendships difficult or short lasting.

I can be a know all on the couse but at the same time, how can you come across as knowledgable / confident / sell yourself at interview without being a know all?

As a trainee, there’s no need for you to come across as a know all, because you’re not. You’re learning. You have to present with a degree of humility. That doesn’t mean pretending not to know something. It means (example): “My understanding is that...” or “I believe...”

Just a tweak to usual communication, because you’re talking to much more qualified people.

I can be a know all on the couse but at the same time, how can you come across as knowledgable / confident / sell yourself at interview without being a know all?

It's a fine line sometimes, of course being keen to learn, knowledgeable, supportive of the team by working hard are all great attributes, but sometimes it can (obviously no idea in this case) be delivered in a way that comes across as undermining others, or like you are suggesting they don't know what they are doing. It's hard to explain really, but its not usually done intentionally but is quite clear within the team by others.

Honestly and as harsh as this is going to sound, you've had at least three times in your life so far where you are blaming other people for bullying etc. There comes a point you have to look at the possibility that the problem is in fact you. It's rare to have had this many problems so often and so quickly into someone's life. Perhaps you are unlucky, but your other statements do sound like you are the problem.

I don't think you are realising it though because you don't understand it, which is where other people's thoughts of autism come into play. You might not think you come across as a know it all, to the interviewer you did. You may have done this unknowingly in other situations too. It's simply because you don't know how to read a situation, try to read it, get it wrong and give the wrong response. It's something to work on that's all, but you are currently just blaming everything else which isn't likely to solve the problem. You can get help on this to understand things better.

A new place may micromanage you too until you get used to it. That will go away in time once you know the job, you have to give it time.

Have you read Games People Play or What do we say after we say hello?

It’s really useful to look at team dynamics and what is your stuff compared with other peoples. Are you in therapy? A therapist (rather than counsellor) will help you explore the scripts and projections happening.

I have wondered about autism on many occassions. I love my own company and lockdown has been respite for me....i must be mad!

I have worked in the private sector in research agencies and in comsultancy roles and now at a university in professional services for 30+ years in total. I have only come across a couple of real bullies and they were always the clients rather than my colleagues.
However my friend who has trained to be a nurse later on in life and now works as one has some hair raising stories about how awful some of her tutors, managers and colleagues are, especially on her university placements. I completely believe her , she worked for many years on another industry which she did not find fulfilling but certainly didn't have any problems with her colleagues. As she is older, with a reasonably successful career in another industry behind her she is more confident in herself so is good at ignoring a lot of this. She still finds nursing very fulfilling but she does say much of her experience of the NHS is that it is a pretty toxic work environment,. particularly with regards to management bullying ( not her current wards/ area which she says isn't bad at all)

I’m also a little surprised at the characterisation of some of the examples as bullying, I think you may need to look at re-framing some of these experiences and consider if they could involve your negative reaction to constructive feedback?

It can be hard if it isn't something that you are naturally aware of OP, and it really can be as small as a few of the words used.

For example, I used to work in a team where we supported a highly skilled and qualified team of people. A colleague of mine was fantastic at our job, and very keen to learn above and beyond what we needed to know as he was interested in it. However, instead of saying something along the lines of, oh is it x ladder you need for this job or whatever, he would say remember you need x ladder.

Can you see the difference in those? And how the person who he says it too might feel differently with just a change of wording?

How far into your training are you, OP?

If second or third year, I'd keep my head down and mouth shut barring any safety issues and persevere. Obviously, show the required amount of knowledge and interest. If a placement is particularly hellish, complain to your uni.
I do sympathise though--been there, wouldn't do it again!!

I find it a bit alarming that people suggest autism so easily.

I think it is very difficult to express clearly yourself on a forum, and the OP might not want to give too much info away so it is hard to accurately judge her responses but imv, autism is becoming a term to be used to counter any negative response to situations.

I have had similar experiences in teaching - it is notorious for it. Many of the people who are quick to criticise others and shout autism are, in my experience the bullies who are failing to realise that they do not explain well, set an inappropriate tone, create the wrong dynamics, etc.

I have heard so many people label children autstic when they are simply quiet, getting on with things, able to create an internal world for themselves.

You have my sympathy, OP.

The thing is i do seem to choose careers as i want to help peopld only to discover that im not skilled at handling large quantities of said people.

@Cloudybeanie

A colleague of mine was fantastic at our job, and very keen to learn above and beyond what we needed to know as he was interested in it. However, instead of saying something along the lines of, oh is it x ladder you need for this job or whatever, he would say remember you need x ladder.

This is such a good example of how you can feel picked on when you are on the end of this kind of behaviour. It is a need to constantly be in control of everything and everyone and every encounter then turns into a conflict. I worked with an assistant who would constantly do this to me in public - it is their issue of insecurity, not yours. The next person she worked with pinned her in so tightly in her role and she eventually left, but there was no support for me.

@maleficient7

There are lots of different ways to help people - small orgs, etc

Maybe you need to focus on helping yourself first.

Whilst I don’t for one minute doubt your experiences, as an employer in the private sector, so many claims of having been bullied is viewed as a bit of a red flag on application forms and interviews. Sadly confirmed when the people concerned are employed and turn out to be employees from hell.
Sorry if that makes me sound harsh, I’m not at all, but it might be something to think about. Hope you find something that suits.

What does “super keen” look like?

That comment could mean any number of things including a dig at the doctors or annoyance at your being over-keen.

Do you perhaps have a chance to ask the interviewer what she meant and for feedback to help with your next interview?

Unforunately, you seem to have trained for jobs that are known to be high-stress, often in bullying environments. Is there any sort of work mentoring programme that you could request to be part of, so you link up with someone with more experience and ask what options there are for you? Or was there a careers advisor or lecturer from your studies you could get in contact with to ask for advice?

I don't blame you for not wanting to work in a nasty environment, and it would be a shame not to make the most of your training, but perhaps customer facing roles in high stress environments aren't really right for you? There's no shame in this; not every job is going to be right for every personality.

I mean this kindly op - but in my experience (civil service) people who have been 'bullied' in every job they've had means it's not the job/teams, it's an issue with that individual.

Either they're too sensitive to normal workplace engagement or they perceive bullying when it's actually proper line management (not common in the public sector) or when they don't get the job/promotion they think they're qualified for.

If people are actually name calling/ ignoring you then you must report it but the majority of people are just getting on with their jobs.

Is there someone you trust that can give you really frank feedback? Maybe you do come across as a know it all, or go to pieces with anxiety if asked to do something new. Hopefully someone you trust could tell you nicely if there's anything you need to work on?

Teaching seems to be a difficult environment, especially for a people-pleaser. I expect nursing is quite similar as it is such a tough job. You might be better off in a more normal job. Both jobs suffer from ridiculous workloads.