MLM for the gullible

[SpringIsComingAlways]

MLM everywhere on social media...living my own life selling tat @bossgirl

Apart from people at the very top is MLM just aimed at gullible people recruiting more gullible people?

YABU all type of people join MLM and make shedloads of money

YANBU it's just for gullible or vulnerable people

In case anyone doesn't know MLM is multi level marketing.... getting others to sell products you sell, like a pyramid with commission to those above you in the scheme...think YouNique, bodysuit, fake perfumes, smelly candles, make up that is ridiculously overpriced due to commission, etc etc..... they come and come and spread as much as covid

"hey Hun, i'm just putting in a large order and i don't want you to miss out , i have the F15 gym pack on offer at £120 , will really boost those at home sessions. Alot of my other lovelies have used this for excellent results"
Copy of text from DSIL , calls herself a businesswoman, mumpreneur, went quiet on the MLM, now looking to set up as a dog breeder

I know loads of people who do Arbonne. 6 or 7 of them have tried to sign me up. They have these big conferences in luxury hotels that they charge their people hundreds of pounds to go to. That one is like a cult.

Tropic bots are everywhere I look around me. They seem to actually believe people want the overpriced products and that they can cure people’s skin problems. They think the business is legit, and they are doing no-one any harm. They are middle class people relying on other income and this is a top up to them. They knock people’s doors in their own street - during covid lockdown restrictions too - because they are encouraged to do so in their instructions! It is like a cult though; they have no idea it is wrong for them to do this. They also recruit people and sell to folk who are far poorer than they are. I find it very disheartening.

The other thing I don’t understand is the logic of recruiting randomers and why people don’t get it’s flawed. In real life, if your business was so great, you wouldn’t be recruiting random people off Facebook who have no relevant experience.

Let’s not forget the “top sales conferences”. This is where the hun bot will start posting about the amazing places the scam has taken them, with pictures of them living it up in an exotic location. It will be implied that the company has paid for their attendance due to their sales success.

No. Hun has paid for her airfares, accommodation, food and drink and most likely has forked out a massive “conference fee”. I reckon the conferences must be a top earner for the scams too, fully funded by the poor saps down the chain, giving the scam company a healthy profit.

@Dustyhedge

The other thing I don’t understand is the logic of recruiting randomers and why people don’t get it’s flawed. In real life, if your business was so great, you wouldn’t be recruiting random people off Facebook who have no relevant experience.

Absolutely. If I had a great product/business I sure as hell wouldn’t be wanting others in the local area to be selling it too. I’d want to keep it for myself!

@MangoSeason

Let’s not forget the “top sales conferences”. This is where the hun bot will start posting about the amazing places the scam has taken them, with pictures of them living it up in an exotic location. It will be implied that the company has paid for their attendance due to their sales success.

No. Hun has paid for her airfares, accommodation, food and drink and most likely has forked out a massive “conference fee”. I reckon the conferences must be a top earner for the scams too, fully funded by the poor saps down the chain, giving the scam company a healthy profit.

Along similar lines I think it's Arbonne who promise a white Mercedes when you get to a certain level. Except what that really means is you take out a HP/PCP in your own name and Arbonne will pay you X amount a month to cover it as long as you meet a certain sales level, so as soon as your sales start declining you have to start paying out £££ for the car yourself and your tied into the contract (I think you get 1-2 months where they will let you off and still cover it). Oh and it's got to have at least 3 Arbonne stickers on it.

@MintyMabel

Do companies like Slimming World and WW operate as MLMs?

I don't think so. They don't rely on consultants hiring other consultants to make money. They do actually sell a service which is the basis of the consultant's commission.

I think SW and WW operate like Avon used to, in that everyone gets a 'patch' and then if the group starts getting too full they will recruit someone else to do another class in the area.

But from what I understand its similar to MLM's in that the resources etc all cost the consultant. I think its possibly a franchise, but will need to check definition.

The Body Shop got me thinking about the differences between franchises and MLMs, as I found out a lot of their bricks and morter stores are actually franchises (so the Body shop is actually taking very very little risk on while generating sales from shops and reps). Maybe someone can clarify but I think franchises have to be proven that you can earn a certain amount of money, and the products are bought at wholesale price, where the MLM rep only gets a part of the profit over wholesale price, the rest going to the company?

If anyone can explain I'd be really interested.

I don’t know about SW but WW coaches are employed by the company. They get a wage for every meeting and then I think commissions based on number of members and sales figures.
They used to be self employed years ago but even then the company told them where to open their meetings and how many they could have. They’re definitely not an MLM.

I would also challenge all the people who say "I know people who are doing well in MLM".

No. You know people who SAY they are doing well in MLM which isn't the same thing at all. Two possibilities:

1. They are lying through their teeth, faking it till they make it, as they know that if they said they were earning diddly squat they'd get no new recruits.

1. Perhaps more likely, they are really not giving the true picture because they are being fed the lines from up above. What's the point of getting a £5000 commission cheque if you've spend £4990 on product? A MLM bot would say "Wow! I've earned £5k this month and you could too with this amazing opportunity". The rest of us would quite rightly say that no, she's earned a tenner and is now stuck with loads of stuff she never wanted.

They are encouraged to post turnover as if it were profit. They never factor in time, expenses they incur in their "business" activities or the rest of it. Every penny which flows in is their profit/earnings. It's fairly financially illiterate, but they are programmed to accept it.

As for Usborne books - lovely products, used to love the lift the flaps books when my lot were little. But I could today buy a set of 6 of the "look inside our world" Usborne books from Amazon for £28, and have them delivered free to the house by tomorrow. Usborne are selling the books individually for £9.99. Can anyone see the flaws in that business model?

Yes, the one I know keeps posting about all these beauties who 'be joined the amazing team at such a good time, because the business is growing and growing.

Hi @LivingDeadGirlUK and @CurlsandCurves

I posted yesterday around 4.20pm - I am an ex SW consultant.

Yes in many ways SW is very like an MLM.

Consultants are 'expected' to recruit new consultants although they don't get a cut of the new consultants commission (SW take too much of that!) they do get a one off bonus each time they recruit.

To rise up the SW ladder though a consultant must have recruited and once that 'promotion' is gained they start to earn quite a bit more from how well each of the consultants in their team is doing.

It's sold as a franchise, but you must be a SW member to be 'recruited' into the SW cult - and it really is a cult, make no mistake.

Consultants invest a fair sum of money up front, plus travelling & hotel costs for the compulsory training.

They are self employed - but only for tax and employment law purposes as they have zero autonomy over their business.

Some are very successful - although a lot of that is down to the location of their groups.

The pressure from managers to get new members is incredible and earnings are very dependent on how many members are attending a group. Commission varies greatly - SW take between 50 and 75%, and that's after the consultant has paid for everything else.

If a consultant isn't earning well, they are told it's because they are not following the 'business plan' and that if they were following it 100% they would be earning loads.

There is a lot of gaslighting that goes on.

And just like MLMs they are encouraged to post on SM about how well they are doing and how brilliant it is to be able to be at home for their DC and earn so well, what an amazing opportunity SW has given them etc.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned yet but this blog is such an eye opener into the tactics these organisations employ - ellebeaublog.com

@NameChangerindanger

Hi *@LivingDeadGirlUK and @CurlsandCurves*

I posted yesterday around 4.20pm - I am an ex SW consultant.

Yes in many ways SW is very like an MLM.

Consultants are 'expected' to recruit new consultants although they don't get a cut of the new consultants commission (SW take too much of that!) they do get a one off bonus each time they recruit.

To rise up the SW ladder though a consultant must have recruited and once that 'promotion' is gained they start to earn quite a bit more from how well each of the consultants in their team is doing.

It's sold as a franchise, but you must be a SW member to be 'recruited' into the SW cult - and it really is a cult, make no mistake.

Consultants invest a fair sum of money up front, plus travelling & hotel costs for the compulsory training.

They are self employed - but only for tax and employment law purposes as they have zero autonomy over their business.

Some are very successful - although a lot of that is down to the location of their groups.

The pressure from managers to get new members is incredible and earnings are very dependent on how many members are attending a group. Commission varies greatly - SW take between 50 and 75%, and that's after the consultant has paid for everything else.

If a consultant isn't earning well, they are told it's because they are not following the 'business plan' and that if they were following it 100% they would be earning loads.

There is a lot of gaslighting that goes on.

And just like MLMs they are encouraged to post on SM about how well they are doing and how brilliant it is to be able to be at home for their DC and earn so well, what an amazing opportunity SW has given them etc.

Thanks for explaining, that's actually really disappointing to read, I didn't personally get on with SW but I enjoyed going to the groups, the accountability, and the group leader was such a lovely engaging person.

I was just thinking about signing up again for the accountability, as I've gone up nearly 2 dress sizes since first lockdown, but I won't.

@RaspberryCoulis

I would also challenge all the people who say "I know people who are doing well in MLM".

No. You know people who SAY they are doing well in MLM which isn't the same thing at all. Two possibilities:

1. They are lying through their teeth, faking it till they make it, as they know that if they said they were earning diddly squat they'd get no new recruits.

1. Perhaps more likely, they are really not giving the true picture because they are being fed the lines from up above. What's the point of getting a £5000 commission cheque if you've spend £4990 on product? A MLM bot would say "Wow! I've earned £5k this month and you could too with this amazing opportunity". The rest of us would quite rightly say that no, she's earned a tenner and is now stuck with loads of stuff she never wanted.

They are encouraged to post turnover as if it were profit. They never factor in time, expenses they incur in their "business" activities or the rest of it. Every penny which flows in is their profit/earnings. It's fairly financially illiterate, but they are programmed to accept it.

As for Usborne books - lovely products, used to love the lift the flaps books when my lot were little. But I could today buy a set of 6 of the "look inside our world" Usborne books from Amazon for £28, and have them delivered free to the house by tomorrow. Usborne are selling the books individually for £9.99. Can anyone see the flaws in that business model?

If you know someone at the top of the chain, or towards the top, they could be genuinely doing well financially. However, they are part of the exploitation of the people below them so I’m not sure I would count it as success. And also those people are rare!

I worry about a friend who is selling candles and wax melts. They seem to be connected to Spotify, does that seem likely? No attempt to recruit.

She puts lots of pictures on FB, But I can’t see enough people wanting to keep buying this stuff to make it viable. She lives 100s of miles from me and postage is very expensive but I feel mean about not buying from her. I think her husband is struggling with his job/furlough and she Is doing her best to help.

Do candle MLMs ever succeed?

I know an MLM pusher who works in a responsible role in children services.

Makes me seriously consider her suitability for the job if she either a) can't see how dodgy they are or b) she doesn't care who buys it.

No doubt that people at the top of the pyramid are making cash, @AngelicaSchuylerAndHerSisters. They're in the less than 1% who make money - and they can be hugely successful. I'd imagine the very first person to sign up to any MLM in the UK who has most other "distributors" in the UK underneath them is raking it in.

But most people aren't like that and if you're joining an already established MLM then you're not going to make life-changing sums. You're probably struggling to break even.

@LivingDeadGirlUK - don't let me put you off joining again - the weight loss plan does work (it is simply a low calorie plan dressed up as otherwise) - in great part because of the groups/accountability.

Most consultants are lovely - they are recruited because they are lovely/gullible and will really care about their members/work incredibly hard so what you will get for your money is usually amazing.

It's just that a lot of the consultants don't get what they have been led to believe that they can/are told they aren't doing it right/could be working harder while those further up the chain get richer off of the consultants back.

Good luck with your weight loss!!

Yes, I agree they're everywhere these days 😭 I've noticed that most of the people that are part of these schemes are either students or stay-at-home mums. Basically people who may be struggling financially, but may not be able to earn money through a normal job. I do think desperation is a part of it which is sad as lots of people end up losing more money than they earn.

I’m always surprised that Neals Yard sully themselves with MLM shit - they have really good products that they sell at John Lewis etc, so why risk their reputation? That said, a friend sells their products but she’s a massage therapist and she just orders on behalf of others if we want her to. There’s never been any hard sell, she sells a few bits here and there and definitely no hunbotting.

I’m always a bit disappointed that I’ve never known a MLM Hunbot in real life as I think they’d be quite entertaining. Did get trapped into a few parties though; one was an Anne Summers party which was excruciatingly awful (I’m no prude but I don’t feel the need to discuss my sexual proclivities with a mate’s work colleagues) and the other was dressed up as a “Girls’ Night In” only to find we were given the hard sell for beauty products which were vastly overpriced. The friend’s colleague who was hosting it (who may or may not have been the same rep as the AS party) got quite huffy when we nodded politely but didn’t order anything. I was bloody annoyed about it then (and still am, TBH) as I had so little money at the time but was made to feel guilty and unsupportive for not buying.

There is one called Temple spa thats sold in Harrods.

Has anyone seen Murder on Middle Beach on Sky? It's a documentary about a group of women living in an affluent area in the US who got into "gifting tables." Basically, all female dinner parties and friendship groups which you are invited to join once you have donated thousands. You are then promised a huge payment once you have recruited more people who then donate more cash.

Two of the women were jailed for fraud and a third was murdered. It's not clear who murdered her but there were many disgruntled people who lost money, some were vulnerable women recruited from Alcoholics Anonymous.

I have found my group!

I cannot stand MLMs. The latest doing the rounds here is a travel agent MLM. In a pandemic. People are signing up to sell holidays and recruit new members whilst the country is on lockdown.

Out of interest I googled how quickly I could find the deals touted by the mlm bot I know, cheaper. 15 minutes later I had the exact same deal she was selling at a cheaper price. This person has been a member of every MLM going and previous touted forever living to a friend of mine who was quite ill as a cure-all product.

There is a group on Facebook called "sounds like an mlm but OK" that calls out the bullshittery of MLMs.

It's when you see the American posts that talk about life insurance MLMs (yes there is now an mlm for that), you really get quite scared at how many people could be hooked in, you think life insurance, you don't think MLM.

I am really surprised. There hasn't been more docs made about them, I'm wondering if it's due to their extensive legal teams. I remember seeing one thing on bbc3 a few years ago but that's been it.

YANBU- the Body Shop at Home is running rampant through my village. I am ashamed to say that I used to be friends with the boss bot- who now boasts that she has 400 in her down line!

That’s 400 sucker she is ripping off, mostly nuns who want to work from home and cannot afford the loss.

And lots of the mums at school who are being convinced to buy are using up money they can’t afford to part with to try to support friends ‘businesses’. FFS.

It’s like a plague.