To think that the vast majority of people do not feel they have a gender identity?

[Galvantulang]

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system. It's optional for now, but almost everyone I asked at work when the email came out went "eh?".

Apart from the data protection issues of collecting all this extra information, AIBU to think that the majority of people don't consider themselves to have a gender identity, just their sex?

i.e. you don't identify as a man or woman, you just... are one?

Watching laws and amendments to bills being proposed (especially in Scotland) based on recognising gender identity rather than biological sex, seems somewhat unreal.

Um...

Yabu = I feel like I have a gender identity.
Yanbu = I do not feel like I have a gender identity.

Indeed, which is why fgm, menstrual huts and child marriage is never addressed by those imploring us to stop fighting for sex based protections.

It's always horrible privileged c** white women who are just bigots and it's all about toilets and be kind.

To pee, or not to pee.
That's not the question.

I've never seen any explanation of what gender identity is, that I could make head nor tail of.

I read this one, which is aimed at children, so ought to make sense:

"Your gender identity is a way to describe how you feel about your gender. You might identify your gender as a boy or a girl or something different. This is different from your sex, which is related to your physical body and biology. People are assigned a gender identity at birth based on their sex".

But the thing is, I don't remember DS being assigned a gender identity after I gave birth to him, when we were in hospital. I'm sure they would have told me, right?

I'm wondering now whether they came round and did it at the same time as serving dinner? I missed that because I'd gone to the bathroom, and they'd left for the next ward with the dinner trolley by the time I came back.

I'm questioning, too, whether the same thing happened to my DM, because again, no mention to me of any gender identity assigned to me at birth.

All very mysterious.

I have no gender because I reject gender stereotypes. I am an individual who chooses what they wear and act for themselves, rather than trying to fit into an impossibly narrow definition created by ad agencies and the fashion industry.

But that doesn’t stop me from being the one in my marriage who does all the drudge work, caring (kids and elderly parents), who is talked down to by male colleagues, who has been sexually assaulted and who had to go part time for childcare purposes now earns less and has damaged their career prospects.

Guess society has some way of picking which half of the population to discriminate against. Wonder what it is because I don’t wear dresses or make up. I once got 1 out of 50 in a Cosmo ‘How Girlie are You’ quiz.

No gender identity here thank you, I don't identify as female, I just am female. I wouldn't be in the slightest bit bothered if someone called me Mr or Sir.

I posted this on another thread but it's probably more relevant here. It's about how clinicians working with babies born of an ambiguous sex now usually wait until gender identity emerges before assigning a sex because they frequently used to get it wrong and that created a lot of unhappy kids. When gender identity ceases to be an intellectual exercise on the internet and actually affects real children's live it's not so easy to dismiss.

abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

But that is about a male with XY chromosomes who was raised as a girl? And then wanted to be a male? So basically wanted to be the sex they were born with?

How does this relate to someone who wants to be a gender identity of the opposite sex?

And I thought intersex people were very rare, special cases who have asked specifically to not be dragged into the debate about sex and gender?

How does this relate to someone who wants to be a gender identity of the opposite sex?

This is a thread about gender identity, not trans people specifically, so I thought that link might be of interest. Most of the scientific understanding of gender identity has come form work with intersex kids.

My sex is female. I don’t understand the gender thing. What makes someone identify as a name? Do they want a penis? Because that’s the only thing I can see would make someone make, their genitals. Whether you like make up, pink, dresses, football, blue, cars etc. has no bearing on male or female because they can be liked/dislikes by both. If a male wants to wear pink and make up or doesn’t make him female, just a man that likes those things.

I also wouldn’t want any sex/gender written on my work email, it has no bearing on my job and I don’t want it stamped on there, especially as I work in a predominantly male industry. It has no place at work.

I posted this on another thread but it's probably more relevant here

Not relevant here at all. DSDs jj. DSDs are not the "vast majority of people" of the OP. And they have asked to be kept out of arguments about Trans issues. Please respect their wishes.

That poor child... nowadays they'd surely check the chromosomes if the genitals are ambiguous and not make that sort of mistake. His sex was misidentified at birth in a way that shouldn't happen now.

When gender identity ceases to be an intellectual exercise on the internet and actually affects real children's live it's not so easy to dismiss.

I didn't dismiss it. I asked you about it and have said it clearly matters to some people. If you posted that link to attempt to clarify what 'gender identity' is then it says that this person liked 'rough and tumble play' and was 'attracted to girls' in an attempt to explain it. It also says 'We expect XX is pink and a girl / XY is blue and a boy' which has confused me even further as I have zero idea what colours have to do with it? and additionally just refers to 'finding out what they are feeling'.

So are you telling me gender is a function of play choice, sexual attraction, colour, and 'a feeling'?
It didn't answer my question about masculinity or femininity.

And here comes the inevitable stream of posts saying you're not allowed to talk about intersex people, how dare you talk about intersex people, the intersex gender critical person on twitter has been quite clear you must not mention intersex people in any circumstances if you are transgender, and you are especially not allowed to talk about intersex people who feel they have a gender identity.

Well tough, I did, and it wasn't even in the context of trans people. Call the intersex police if you want ... oh you can't, she's banned from twitter.

@ErrolTheDragon

That poor child... nowadays they'd surely check the chromosomes if the genitals are ambiguous and not make that sort of mistake. His sex was misidentified at birth in a way that shouldn't happen now.

No, they don't use chromosones at all. They used to sometimes, didn't work out well. They wait, sometimes for several years for gender identity to emerge as that piece explains.

Men made gender rules to suit them in the first place
And now there are another set of rules to suit them in the second place
Most women aren’t that desperate about gender conformity

@jj1968

And here comes the inevitable stream of posts saying you're not allowed to talk about intersex people, how dare you talk about intersex people, the intersex gender critical person on twitter has been quite clear you must not mention intersex people in any circumstances if you are transgender, and you are especially not allowed to talk about intersex people who feel they have a gender identity.

Well tough, I did, and it wasn't even in the context of trans people. Call the intersex police if you want ... oh you can't, she's banned from twitter.

Hi JJ, I didn't say any of those things.

Well tough, I did, and it wasn't even in the context of trans people

Ok, I get that could be so. But the fact is that throwing intersex people into this does make you look like you are "piggy-backing". Unless you are intersex and have an insight leave them out of this.

‘Well tough, I did, and it wasn't even in the context of trans people. Call the intersex police if you want ... oh you can't, she's banned from twitter.’

I don’t understand this. We’re not even on Twitter.

They wait, sometimes for several years for gender identity to emerge as that piece explains.

Sounds like actually, in the more ambiguous cases what they're actually waiting for is puberty to cause maturation one way or the other.

One thing that would surely help these kids is to get rid of gender stereotypes being applied to little kids. If they're truly ambiguous then don't force them to be raised 'as a girl' or 'as a boy'. Kids don't need colour coding and told they should or shouldn't do different things. let kids be kids.

I work with someone who identifies as someone transitioning from female to male. I like this person a lot, get on well with and work well with them. I also don’t believe it is possible to change your biological sex.

I want to keep getting on with them, and I have no desire to make their life harder or be a dick. But I also don’t want to pretend I believe things are true when I don’t. Currently I tie myself up in awkward paragraphs like “Sam is working on that query. Sam thinks they will have it ready by Friday. Sam seems confident of this.”
(They’re not really called Sam).

It feels impossible to be honest. Squaring a circle. I feel like my choice is between lying or being perceived by them as unsupportive and I hate both those ideas.

So are you telling me gender is a function of play choice, sexual attraction, colour, and 'a feeling'?
I'll assume that was the point of linking the article then.
So gender identity IS linked to sexual attraction, and trans people want to dismantle gender. Two things I must admit I am surprised to read today. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course, but I find it harder and harder to see any kind of consensus on what gender is and what it isn't.

And I still haven't had any guidance on identifying my own!

@DeaconBoo Some trans people want to abolish gender. Contrary to some people's assumptions trans people have a range of different opinions and sometimes even disagree.

I feel that if I say my gender identity is female then I am saying I collude with all the female gender stereotypes, many of which I have spent a long time fighting. Im a woman and often that is really awful. it feels a nonsense to say I identify as that when its caused pain I could not identify out of.