..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?

[ConcernedMum100]

AIBU to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools...

Historically, Stonewall has done amazing work and led the way for equality. However, over recent years their priority seems to be a different sort of activism, which has caused many of their original supporters to abandon them.

I want to stress that I am very much in favour of primary schools teaching about diversity and different types of families including same sex parents, etc. I believe that's very important. I do however have reservations with Stonewall for various reasons, as follows:

-Its school resources with regards to transgenderism and gender identity, such as An Introduction to Supporting LGBT children, breach the Department of Education’s guidelines in many ways, including the sexist and regressive suggestion that children enjoying clothes or toys typically associated with the opposite sex is a sign they may be transgender. The resources also say that children are given a label at birth (they mean their sex is recorded) and that sometimes this label will have been wrong. They are not referring to the tiny percentage of babies born with a DSD, but children whose gender identity is supposedly different to their sex. Whatever that means. The resources also say that a school should not tell the child’s parents about their gender identity if the child does not want them to. Which means they’re suggesting schools change a child’s name and pronouns without informing the parents. Seeing as they communicate that children with gender dysphoria are often vulnerable and even suicidal, this seems very irresponsible.

-Its stance on child safeguarding. Stonewall have been very clear that they disagree with the High Court’s ruling which concluded that children under the age of 16 are highly unlikely to be able to consent to puberty blockers. They are in favour of medicating children as young as 10 years old, who are experiencing gender dysphoria and say they want to live as the opposite sex. This follows research showing puberty blockers do not have a positive effect on the children’s mental health, but do cause issues with brain development and bone density. Nearly 100% of children who have taken puberty blockers go on to take cross sex hormones which will likely lead to loss of sexual function and infertility. There has been an alarming increase in children identifying as trans over the last few years and the reasons for this is unknown, and there has been no research to understand the apparent strong link between autism and gender dysphoria, nor homosexuality and gender dysphoria.

-Its stance on women’s single sex spaces. Via both Tweeting and their school resources, Stonewall have made clear they believe women and girls do not have the right to single sex spaces at time when they may be vulnerable, because they believe males who identify as women (the prerequisite of which is to declare themselves a woman-no need for any medical treatment or diagnosis) should be treated as females in every aspect of life. This means access to women’s communal changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, toilets, and rape shelters, to name a few examples.

-Its stance on women’s sports. Stonewall disagreed with World Rugby’s decision to prevent transwomen competing in women’s rugby. This decision was reached by World Rugby because they found that to include TW in the women’s teams would be unfair and unsafe (in increased risk to the women on the team by at least 20-30%) Stonewall appear to believe (and say) that inclusion comes above all else, even the safety of women and girls and their right to fair competition.

I don’t feel comfortable that an organisation with these highly controversial and political viewpoints has access to primary school children, whether it’s via face to face sessions, training school staff, or learning resources.

Of course Stonewall are not the only organisation which has these worrying beliefs. However, they are the biggest and most well funded. They are also listed on the Department of Educations “experts” page, despite breaching its own guidelines, which I think is wrong and also makes it very difficult for parents to complain to schools.

What are your thoughts?

@ArabellaScott

Is their funding opaque? Shouldn't charities be pretty open about their finances?

That only goes so far in all of my attempts to find out.

Teachers are only following gov guidelines as they have often reiterated to me.
Schools have governor panels for issues to be addressed.

If a teacher actually spoke out against Stonewall, what are the chances they'd be told to get back in line or lose their job?

Some people are shit scared to say or do anything.

I have very deep concerns that Stonewall have captured many influencers and lawmakers in the UK.

Its worth being aware that Stonewall was captured in 2014 by transactivists specifically because it had been such a successful influencer advocating for gay and lesbian rights.

2017 article by Miranda Yardley (transsexual and male)

'Ma Vie En Rose: Ruth Hunt’s Rose-Tinted Trans*Goggles and the anti-Woman Politics of Stonewall'
(extract)
"I first spoke with Stonewall’s Ruth Hunt just over three years ago when the organisation announced it would be engaging with the transgender community. This resulted in the forming of the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group, you know that motley crew of transgender tyrants, including the self-styled (styled as if it were 1973) answer for any heterosexual woman who wishes to bring out her ‘inner lesbian’, Alex ‘Beardy’ Drummond. cheeky wink

Ruth, bless her fighting heart, has been defending transgender activists to an extraordinary degree, indeed there appears to be no transgression she cannot overlook with her inbuilt sense of forgiveness which seems divine in breadth and depth. She has embraced the very dogma that makes real life discussion, debate and compromise with transgenderists impossible, dogma which positions the interests of the T in ‘LGBT’ in opposition to anyone who considers biological sex to be important in any material way: trans women are women, no debate, end of.

Quite aside from it being cruel to humour delusional claims of one being something one is not, positioning one’s acceptance of an individual on a lie is outright dishonest. And anyway, what is a lesbian and gay group doing when it considers the thoughts and feelings of personal identity more important than the reality of our sexed bodies?" (continues)

mirandayardley.com/en/ma-vie-en-rose-ruth-hunts-rose-tinted-transgoggles-and-the-anti-woman-politics-of-stonewall/

To understand the extent of capture of policy and law makers, it is necessary to look beyond Stonewall.
relevant thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

Stonewalls obsession with promoting this in schools and to ever younger children (their latest campaign targets primary school children) is a tactic designed to embed this in the impressionable minds before they are old enough or develop the critical thinking to question it.

Stonewall is a political organisation- it had a manifesto relating to the last election. It should be nowhere near schools, the police, the CPS etc with its political and damaging ideology. And we the taxpayers are paying them to try and change the law against the interests of women and children!!

I couldn’t agree more.

There has been some excellent discussion points on this thread and links. My concern is very simply if feelings are allowed to supersede biological fact then this will be the start of a very slippery slope in terms of safeguarding. It won’t be long before someone claims to identify as a child when they are an adult and then all children will be at risk.

@SeptemberAlexandra

Stonewalls obsession with promoting this in schools and to ever younger children (their latest campaign targets primary school children) is a tactic designed to embed this in the impressionable minds before they are old enough or develop the critical thinking to question it.

Stonewall is a political organisation- it had a manifesto relating to the last election. It should be nowhere near schools, the police, the CPS etc with its political and damaging ideology. And we the taxpayers are paying them to try and change the law against the interests of women and children!!

I couldn’t agree more.

There has been some excellent discussion points on this thread and links. My concern is very simply if feelings are allowed to supersede biological fact then this will be the start of a very slippery slope in terms of safeguarding. It won’t be long before someone claims to identify as a child when they are an adult and then all children will be at risk.

As somebody myself who is strongly of the opinion many people are not being totally honest in regards to their sexuality, I see an understandable need for raising awareness.

That last point you made was well needed.

Just look at those with nappy fetishism.

It won’t be long before someone claims to identify as a child when they are an adult and then all children will be at risk.

There was an article about a middle aged man in America who identified as a 6 yr old girl so it’s not far off. There was also a male school teacher who transitioned and then insisted on using the (young) children’s toilets instead of the teacher facilities.

Safeguarding is an anathema to some proponents of this ideology. The trouble is #nodebate driven by Stonewall prevents it even being discussed.

My concern is very simply if feelings are allowed to supersede biological fact then this will be the start of a very slippery slope in terms of safeguarding. It won’t be long before someone claims to identify as a child when they are an adult and then all children will be at risk.

There has been systemic Safeguarding failure already as evidenced in schools, NHS, social work, sports etc

The Safeguarding measures which should have prevented lobbygroups and ideology gaining such influence were and in most cases remain ineffective.

Governors have ultimate reponsibility for the staff and pupils in school. Parents/Carers should challenge them to recognise the risks to Safeguarding and children's welfare of lobbygroups such as Stonewall, Mermaids, Proud Trust etc.

Google Stefonknee Wolsht.

Just to clear, no one is saying that all transgender people are predators in the same way that most men are not predators. Almost all predators are male (regardless of how they identify) and safeguarding to try and prevent vas things happening is imperative.

Bad things will always happen but we cannot afford to have laws (self id, single sex spaces) that make those things easier.

MaryBCH

www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/who-we-are-1

Catherine Dixon stonewall trustee is former head of the law society & if you like at the list of stonewall champions

www.stonewall.org.uk/diversity-champions-programme

It contains pretty much every major law form in the UK and all the so called ‘magic circle’ ones in London

You’d think with all of these lawyers involved they’d know what the equality act says and stop misrepresenting it. Almost as if it’s deliberate...

It won’t be long before someone claims to identify as a child when they are an adult and then all children will be at risk.

Recent case refused the amending of age in official documents: Court of Appeal
Published February 5, 2021
Regina (WA (Palestinian Territories)) v Secretary of State for the Home Department
Before Lord Justice Underhill, Lord Justice Bean and Lord Justice Phillips
[2021] EWCA Civ 12
Judgment January 13, 2021

(extract)
"The question which arose was whether he was entitled to have the date amended to a date which could not be established by evidence and which was well outside the wide range of his assessed age, where the consequence for the claimant of refusal were very grave indeed.

In his Lordship’s judgment, and as recognised by the European Court of Human Rights, a public authority’s record keeping function had to respect the article 8 rights of individuals, but that did not extend to inserting information in records which was not supported by evidence and was considered, on good grounds, to be inaccurate or misleading. That had to be the case no matter how serious the consequence for a particular individual.

It might not matter whether that conclusion was reached by holding that there was no positive duty to insert inaccurate or unverified information, or by deciding that the duty to respect an individual’s identity (or his perception of it) was overwhelmingly overridden by the public interest in accurate and evidence-based records."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fe457cf0-6722-11eb-908c-00b0fcb974f6?shareToken=0c6e5d87ddbc2dbf6005ccca104ed845

current thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4157580-the-right-to-change-personal-information-on-a-document-issued-by-the-government

I am unsure why sex can be recorded falsely but age cannot since both are often central to Safeguarding decisions.

I have a big issue with the early years gender identity stuff. Regressive is exactly the right word. I remember reading an article written by a woman whose daughter was a stereotypical “tomboy” and had started to have a lot of people, including her daughter’s school, raise the question of whether this was a sign of her having a gender identity issue. She made it very clear that she would have no issue with this if it was the case, and would support her daughter completely- but it wasn’t that. She said “my daughter is a girl - she’s just a different sort of girl” - this has really stayed with me and I’ve used it a lot when I’ve had comments about my younger son who has always enjoyed makeup, nail varnish, dresses, and playing with girls. He is a boy - just not a stereotypical boy. And that’s fine.

@gardenbird48

Thanks for that, and I think that was where the representative was very critical of Liz Truss and which was hugely inappropriate given the situation of the meeting.

How much is it going to cost the taxpayers to rewrite all the wrong policies in schools and reverse all the unlawful changes encouraged by Stonewall’s lies, like mixed sex toilets etc. After the taxpayer pays for a direct government grant to Stonewall and pays again through training and membership fees for schools, police etc.

There are many diverse people now working in police forces now as a result of equality. Although I have only seen one non white officer in all of my experience with them. I actually put in FOI requests not long ago to police and councils about recruitment of minorities.

While the interest lies in who isn't being employed- not enough peopke are paying attention to how many unsuitable types ARE employed.

She said “my daughter is a girl - she’s just a different sort of girl” - this has really stayed with me and I’ve used it a lot when I’ve had comments about my younger son who has always enjoyed makeup, nail varnish, dresses, and playing with girls. He is a boy - just not a stereotypical boy. And that’s fine.
You and your friend sound great. Thankfully, I think most people would probably take the same approach.

It always comes down to 'what does it mean to be a girl/boy?' followed by 'so are you saying anyone who doesn't follow stereotypes isn't a boy/girl?'

If Stonewall have changed their stance towards lesbians - the mandating brigade could be the biggest culprits.

The fact Stonewall is being rubbished on here from such an angle suggests it is no longer about duty of care to children but about a distaste for trans ideology.
Due to such hate from feminists or whoever - everyone has to lose out because of it?

Some of us can see what is going on.
An unhealthy attitude towards males then creates one back and as per usual the guilty try and move the argument to somewhere else.

I understand the argument for not agreeing trans are real women but ffs don't dictate something because it is to YOUR disliking.

The challenge to Stonewall comes from gay men and bisexual people as well as lesbians, many of whom fought for lesbian and gay rights in previous decades.

Helen Joyce for Quillette on the founding of LGB Alliance:
November 4, 2019
'Meet the Gay Activists Who’ve Had Enough of Britain’s Ultra-Woke Homophobes'
(extract)
"The original mover behind the Alliance was Kate Harris, a lesbian and veteran civil-rights campaigner, who a decade ago was a Stonewall fundraiser. She had become increasingly enraged by the harassment of lesbian women that was tolerated, even encouraged, by such groups. Harris and Beverley Jackson, another veteran campaigner, had been writing to Stonewall executives for months, seeking a discussion about the malign impact of gender-identity extremism. They asked Stonewall’s chief executive at the time, Ruth Hunt, whether she was worried about the enormous increase in the number of teenage girls attending GIDS, Britain’s gender-identity clinic for under-18s, and what she would say to the growing number of “de-transitioners”—people who abandon their trans identity and return to an identity corresponding to their biological sex. Many of these girls (as most of them are) describe themselves, with hindsight, as having been motivated by internalised homophobia.

“What upsets me most is that this is all based on the legitimacy we created,” Harris told me. It was this anger that inspired her to gather a group of notables, some of whom had been involved in Stonewall during its early days, to draft an open letter to the group’s current management and board for publication in the Times of London on October 4, 2018. The signatories included Simon Fanshawe, one of Stonewall’s founders, novelist Philip Hensher, actor James Dreyfus, feminist campaigner Julie Bindel, and several trans people who regard Stonewall’s divisive approach as likely to harm the interests of the trans community in the long run" (continues)

quillette.com/2019/11/04/meet-the-gay-activists-whove-had-enough-of-britains-ultra-woke-homophobes/

Raising awareness shouldn't be about going into detail on gender or orientation types.
Simply freeing them to express themselves should they feel different is all it should take.

How much makes sense and how much is OTT Job creation for a minority?
But we are getting to a level now where on the whole they aren't a minority.
Children in schools are coming out to their mates increasingly.

Good for them I say.

"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man" has been widely attributed to St Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Jesuit order. (It was probably first said by Aristotle, but I doubt he meant it as an instruction, more as an observation: he doesn't seem to have been interested in schools for small children.)

See also the Komsomol, the Jugend, the Janisseries, and plenty of other examples through history: indoctrinate early enough, and a child will go along with what it is taught and not question it.

Political organisations should not be allowed to have involvement in what is taught in primary schools.

Parents/ carers, teaching staff and governors concerned about Stonewall's influence on school children will find this analysis by Transgender Trend useful:

"Description
Stonewall turns its attention to children with SEND and autism – our full report on Stonewall schools guidance since 2015.

In March, Stonewall published a new schools guide ‘An Introduction to Supporting LGBT young people’, replacing the guide of the same name published in 2015 which is no longer available from the website. The new guide goes further than any previous Stonewall schools guidance in several significant ways, the most serious and potentially harmful aspect of which is the whole section dedicated to children with SEND, including autism.

In this document, we have reviewed all ten Stonewall schools guides from 2015 to the present."

www.transgendertrend.com/product/stonewall-schools-guidance-a-critical-review/

(free PDF download)

@Wotapolava

If Stonewall have changed their stance towards lesbians - the mandating brigade could be the biggest culprits.

The fact Stonewall is being rubbished on here from such an angle suggests it is no longer about duty of care to children but about a distaste for trans ideology.
Due to such hate from feminists or whoever - everyone has to lose out because of it?

Some of us can see what is going on.
An unhealthy attitude towards males then creates one back and as per usual the guilty try and move the argument to somewhere else.

I understand the argument for not agreeing trans are real women but ffs don't dictate something because it is to YOUR disliking.

Stonewall states that males can be lesbians. They deny same sex attraction now as they claim it is transphobic. If a lesbian does not want dick she is transphobic according to Stonewall.

Mrs Brunch,

Why have they though?

@Wotapolava

Mrs Brunch,

Why have they though?

Money probably

Stonewall states that males can be lesbians. They deny same sex attraction now as they claim it is transphobic. If a lesbian does not want dick she is transphobic according to Stonewall.

Alex Drummond was a founder member of Stonewall 'Trans Advisory Group' and as pp has mentioned speaks in schools.

2016 Magdalen Berns sounded the alarm on Stonewall and Drummond:

"What Kind Of Fools Do Transgender UK and Stonewall Take Us For?"

Mrs Brunch,

Only money?

Or something other than?

@Wotapolava

Mrs Brunch,

Only money?

Or something other than?

Power.

It's a very usual male motive for many things.

In his Lordship’s judgment, and as recognised by the European Court of Human Rights, a public authority’s record keeping function had to respect the article 8 rights of individuals, but that did not extend to inserting information in records which was not supported by evidence and was considered, on good grounds, to be inaccurate or misleading. That had to be the case no matter how serious the consequence for a particular individual.

Oh, the irony.