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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?

999 replies

ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 14:02

AIBU to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools...

Historically, Stonewall has done amazing work and led the way for equality. However, over recent years their priority seems to be a different sort of activism, which has caused many of their original supporters to abandon them.

I want to stress that I am very much in favour of primary schools teaching about diversity and different types of families including same sex parents, etc. I believe that's very important. I do however have reservations with Stonewall for various reasons, as follows:

-Its school resources with regards to transgenderism and gender identity, such as An Introduction to Supporting LGBT children, breach the Department of Education’s guidelines in many ways, including the sexist and regressive suggestion that children enjoying clothes or toys typically associated with the opposite sex is a sign they may be transgender. The resources also say that children are given a label at birth (they mean their sex is recorded) and that sometimes this label will have been wrong. They are not referring to the tiny percentage of babies born with a DSD, but children whose gender identity is supposedly different to their sex. Whatever that means. The resources also say that a school should not tell the child’s parents about their gender identity if the child does not want them to. Which means they’re suggesting schools change a child’s name and pronouns without informing the parents. Seeing as they communicate that children with gender dysphoria are often vulnerable and even suicidal, this seems very irresponsible.

-Its stance on child safeguarding. Stonewall have been very clear that they disagree with the High Court’s ruling which concluded that children under the age of 16 are highly unlikely to be able to consent to puberty blockers. They are in favour of medicating children as young as 10 years old, who are experiencing gender dysphoria and say they want to live as the opposite sex. This follows research showing puberty blockers do not have a positive effect on the children’s mental health, but do cause issues with brain development and bone density. Nearly 100% of children who have taken puberty blockers go on to take cross sex hormones which will likely lead to loss of sexual function and infertility. There has been an alarming increase in children identifying as trans over the last few years and the reasons for this is unknown, and there has been no research to understand the apparent strong link between autism and gender dysphoria, nor homosexuality and gender dysphoria.

-Its stance on women’s single sex spaces. Via both Tweeting and their school resources, Stonewall have made clear they believe women and girls do not have the right to single sex spaces at time when they may be vulnerable, because they believe males who identify as women (the prerequisite of which is to declare themselves a woman-no need for any medical treatment or diagnosis) should be treated as females in every aspect of life. This means access to women’s communal changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, toilets, and rape shelters, to name a few examples.

-Its stance on women’s sports. Stonewall disagreed with World Rugby’s decision to prevent transwomen competing in women’s rugby. This decision was reached by World Rugby because they found that to include TW in the women’s teams would be unfair and unsafe (in increased risk to the women on the team by at least 20-30%) Stonewall appear to believe (and say) that inclusion comes above all else, even the safety of women and girls and their right to fair competition.

I don’t feel comfortable that an organisation with these highly controversial and political viewpoints has access to primary school children, whether it’s via face to face sessions, training school staff, or learning resources.

Of course Stonewall are not the only organisation which has these worrying beliefs. However, they are the biggest and most well funded. They are also listed on the Department of Educations “experts” page, despite breaching its own guidelines, which I think is wrong and also makes it very difficult for parents to complain to schools.

What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 10:27

@prisencolinensinainciusol2

As for feminism, I have never subscribed to it as there are many strands and the mainstream brand have done nothing to solve Jill Dando's murder..

I think you might be mixing feminists up with the police.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
BrumBoo · 06/02/2021 10:31

Mixing up feminists with the police, AIBU with church, fascinated where @Wotapolava goes next. It won't be to answer questions directed at them, that's for sure though!

Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 10:32

@BrumBoo

My problem with some feminists attitudes is how they oppose such physical actions but they have outbursts which are detrimental to others mental health.

@Wotapolava again, would you care to explain or give examples of what you mean here? Because 'outbursts' really reads like you are suggesting 'women are upsetting others with their hysterics and that's as bad as violence'.....

I have seen outbursts. And where did I say violence was worse or not?

I didnt.

Putting you on ignore.

Awning10 · 06/02/2021 10:32

I recently saw two Stonewall training videos for teachers. Slipped in beside the legitimate anti-bullying stuff we were told to use pronouns, allow trans students to use the toilet facilities of their choice and that some children know they are trans at the age of 3 or 4. Also, being gay was described as an identity.

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 06/02/2021 10:34

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.

Yeah, yeah..all toilets were like that back in the day.

BrumBoo · 06/02/2021 10:37

I have seen outbursts. And where did I say violence was worse or not?

I asked for examples. And you made it a comparable situation by mentioning male violence.

Putting you on ignore.

@wotapolava not Twitter dear, I wont disappear just because I'm calling out your increasingly goady posts. Unless you're going to block.the whole thread and stop trying to derail it with homophobia, lack of understanding of the subject and bible quotes (for some utterly bizarre reason)?

Whatsnewpussyhat · 06/02/2021 10:38

My problem with some feminists attitudes is how they oppose such physical actions but they have outbursts which are detrimental to others mental health

We are not responsible for other people's poor mental health.

Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 10:42

@prisencolinensinainciusol2

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.

Yeah, yeah..all toilets were like that back in the day.

Were they?

Slumdog millionaire was more likely the scene?

WeeTorag · 06/02/2021 10:48

Agree with all of this OP and YANBU! You are a star for posting this thread here. (Thanks to Glinner for the link!) But also we must keep Stonewall out of Secondary schools. I've been forced to make a formal complaint to our Governing body ABOUT THE HEAD TEACHER because it is his final decision to renew their membership with Stonewall and despite all my objections and information sharing (discrediting Stonewall) they are still going to renew. In order to take it to the Governors, I had to escalate a formal complaint about the Head. Not happy about it but so be it. This thread has reassured me that I'm right to pursue this to protect my child and all the other kids FROM Stonewall and their harmful dogma. I've been very conflicted about it but I've been told recently to feel proud of myself and that "speaking truth to power takes guts". It does, I'm a lone voice about this around here and it's a very lonely experience. But if the school quietly change their mind about it then my job is done. And I can get back to sleeping at night!! :-)

Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 10:50

@Whatsnewpussyhat

My problem with some feminists attitudes is how they oppose such physical actions but they have outbursts which are detrimental to others mental health

We are not responsible for other people's poor mental health.

So people aren't responsible for causing it?

Earlier I put a post up where I mentioned Caroline Flack.

Who was attacked? He was
Who ended up dead? She did

While it is not the coroners job to investigate deaths, it is their duty to speak out about things which are so very wrong which they do see instead of carrying on.
I have spoken to a few coroners lately to whom I said :" There are death certificates for suicide where the truth is not relayed. And to keep pretending officials are doing a good job is a fallacy."

Not only do I know it - you know it.

I will prove it.

Over and out!

Mental anguish vs Physical violence.

Over and out!

Sulkywoman · 06/02/2021 10:54

@Jintyfer . This part of the forum has always had voting buttons. Recently there has been considerable migration and interchange from other boards which has been very useful and educational.
As a lesbian I refuse to accept that Stonewall ever speaks for me, and is doing considerable harm to children , young people and lesbians and there is new advice to schools to keep lobbying organisations at bay. Schools should take note.

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 06/02/2021 10:54

it is not the coroners job to investigate deaths..

Oh yes it is!

Come on boys and girls

HE'S BEHIND YOU - (I miss Panto)

HaroldMeeker · 06/02/2021 10:57

Stonewall hate women, especially lesbians. They've not hidden it, the contempt is clear to see. I'm furious that an organisation that had such excellent beginnings has degenerated into a homophobic, misogynistic pile of baloney. No, they'd not be getting anywhere near my kids with their poison.

babbaloushka · 06/02/2021 11:08

redpencil77 Definitely, experimentation in teens is normal and this should not be validated with permanent medical decisions. We didn't get any lobby groups coming into school and telling us why being goth was a life choice that we should stick with forever. I can understand how teens get caught up in their identity and following the crowds, but it's just inappropriate to treat it as anything but.

Agree RE schools too, eventually they will understand that struggling with identity is normal and they can experiment outside of gender norms without treatments and new pronouns. I look back rather fondly on my grunge days because I enjoyed it and it helped me develop my social identity, but I dont feel as though I need to be goth now as I have more security in my sense of self, which came as I grew up!

Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 11:16

As a parent, if I want Stonewall or any other charity in my child's school, that is up to me and them. Same with other parents.
You do know that we are consulted on things and can opt out?
Not sure if that is in all schools.

Seems to me that some aren't taking full issue with students but they are concerned Stonewall has turned against lesbians.

Anyway, I have just had an email from Collection of Prostitutes.
Where is the best place to put that on here?

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 06/02/2021 11:24

Anyway, I have just had an email from Collection of Prostitutes.* Where is the best place to put that on here?*

Why did they ask you to put it on here? Lazy buggers..

OldCrone · 06/02/2021 11:27

As a parent, if I want Stonewall or any other charity in my child's school, that is up to me and them. Same with other parents. You do know that we are consulted on things and can opt out?

Are all the parents at your child's school consulted if the school decides to join the Stonewall schools champions scheme? Another parent has posted on this thread just this morning about having to take action to stop this. You're very lucky if your child's school consults you about these things, but you must be aware that this isn't true for all schools.

IWillSqueakAgain · 06/02/2021 11:27

D of E most recent release states no outside organisations that use regressive stereotypes or resort to rhetoric about born in the wrong body or are political lobby groups.

So no it’s not just up to parents if stonewall are in schools. We have laws, gov guidelines from D of E, ofsted safe guarding regulations.

If parents feel these are wrong then they can organise and addresses these but they can’t demand school ignore them. So you wanting stonewall in schools doesn’t magically mean schools should ignore it the guidelines that must follow.

Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 11:44

@OldCrone

As a parent, if I want Stonewall or any other charity in my child's school, that is up to me and them. Same with other parents. You do know that we are consulted on things and can opt out?

Are all the parents at your child's school consulted if the school decides to join the Stonewall schools champions scheme? Another parent has posted on this thread just this morning about having to take action to stop this. You're very lucky if your child's school consults you about these things, but you must be aware that this isn't true for all schools.

Just asked. He said " What's that?"

No.

I did have an email which had a listing of the topics on curriculum for all of the topics to be covered on health and sexual education.

I didnt take issue with it.

JoodyBlue · 06/02/2021 11:44

@Jintyfer Flowers

Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 11:48

@IWillSqueakAgain

D of E most recent release states no outside organisations that use regressive stereotypes or resort to rhetoric about born in the wrong body or are political lobby groups.

So no it’s not just up to parents if stonewall are in schools. We have laws, gov guidelines from D of E, ofsted safe guarding regulations.

If parents feel these are wrong then they can organise and addresses these but they can’t demand school ignore them. So you wanting stonewall in schools doesn’t magically mean schools should ignore it the guidelines that must follow.

They don't visit then, just advise.

As you said, Schools follow gov guidelines.
It is not compulsory either way then.

I'm happy with what they have on curriculum if Stonewall had a hand in advising or not.

I know police went into the schools around here to teach kids about sexting.

gardenbird48 · 06/02/2021 11:51

@Awning10

I recently saw two Stonewall training videos for teachers. Slipped in beside the legitimate anti-bullying stuff we were told to use pronouns, allow trans students to use the toilet facilities of their choice and that some children know they are trans at the age of 3 or 4. Also, being gay was described as an identity.
It totally amazes me how this stuff seems totally exempted from normal safeguarding rules.

Schools that have great and robust safeguarding policies suddenly lose the plot completely and think it is fine to facilitate pupils keeping secrets from their parents, signpost them to ‘support’ websites that are the antithesis of safeguarding (Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence etc allow children to participate in chat forums and private online chats with adults and provide a quick escape button to allow them to hide it from their parents).

They also suddenly see no issue with girls accessing the male facilities (despite 200 rapes/yr happening ON SCHOOL PREMISES) and vice versa and mixing boys in with girls for school trip sleeping arrangements. Many of the mtf ‘trans’ kids are heterosexual but the school can’t see the problem with that. It is totally bonkers.

Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 11:51

@prisencolinensinainciusol2

Anyway, I have just had an email from Collection of Prostitutes.* Where is the best place to put that on here?*

Why did they ask you to put it on here? Lazy buggers..

Perks.

I might get free sex for life...

Grin
Wotapolava · 06/02/2021 12:03

@BrumBoo

I have seen outbursts. And where did I say violence was worse or not?

I asked for examples. And you made it a comparable situation by mentioning male violence.

Putting you on ignore.

@wotapolava not Twitter dear, I wont disappear just because I'm calling out your increasingly goady posts. Unless you're going to block.the whole thread and stop trying to derail it with homophobia, lack of understanding of the subject and bible quotes (for some utterly bizarre reason)?

Oh dear. I'll put you out your misery.

Everywhere!

I hope police didn't lose it with the latest data loss.
Nevermind. As Home Sec. Says - we have back ups.

O I also did it post Liberty HQ Mi5 challenge.

As for Stonewall - neither of us will win any awards!

AU REVOIR

Whatsnewpussyhat · 06/02/2021 12:05

No wonder they want to keep us in our FWR box, so they can pretend it's just a handful of nasty 'transphobes' who object to the bullshit.

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?
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