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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?

999 replies

ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 14:02

AIBU to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools...

Historically, Stonewall has done amazing work and led the way for equality. However, over recent years their priority seems to be a different sort of activism, which has caused many of their original supporters to abandon them.

I want to stress that I am very much in favour of primary schools teaching about diversity and different types of families including same sex parents, etc. I believe that's very important. I do however have reservations with Stonewall for various reasons, as follows:

-Its school resources with regards to transgenderism and gender identity, such as An Introduction to Supporting LGBT children, breach the Department of Education’s guidelines in many ways, including the sexist and regressive suggestion that children enjoying clothes or toys typically associated with the opposite sex is a sign they may be transgender. The resources also say that children are given a label at birth (they mean their sex is recorded) and that sometimes this label will have been wrong. They are not referring to the tiny percentage of babies born with a DSD, but children whose gender identity is supposedly different to their sex. Whatever that means. The resources also say that a school should not tell the child’s parents about their gender identity if the child does not want them to. Which means they’re suggesting schools change a child’s name and pronouns without informing the parents. Seeing as they communicate that children with gender dysphoria are often vulnerable and even suicidal, this seems very irresponsible.

-Its stance on child safeguarding. Stonewall have been very clear that they disagree with the High Court’s ruling which concluded that children under the age of 16 are highly unlikely to be able to consent to puberty blockers. They are in favour of medicating children as young as 10 years old, who are experiencing gender dysphoria and say they want to live as the opposite sex. This follows research showing puberty blockers do not have a positive effect on the children’s mental health, but do cause issues with brain development and bone density. Nearly 100% of children who have taken puberty blockers go on to take cross sex hormones which will likely lead to loss of sexual function and infertility. There has been an alarming increase in children identifying as trans over the last few years and the reasons for this is unknown, and there has been no research to understand the apparent strong link between autism and gender dysphoria, nor homosexuality and gender dysphoria.

-Its stance on women’s single sex spaces. Via both Tweeting and their school resources, Stonewall have made clear they believe women and girls do not have the right to single sex spaces at time when they may be vulnerable, because they believe males who identify as women (the prerequisite of which is to declare themselves a woman-no need for any medical treatment or diagnosis) should be treated as females in every aspect of life. This means access to women’s communal changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, toilets, and rape shelters, to name a few examples.

-Its stance on women’s sports. Stonewall disagreed with World Rugby’s decision to prevent transwomen competing in women’s rugby. This decision was reached by World Rugby because they found that to include TW in the women’s teams would be unfair and unsafe (in increased risk to the women on the team by at least 20-30%) Stonewall appear to believe (and say) that inclusion comes above all else, even the safety of women and girls and their right to fair competition.

I don’t feel comfortable that an organisation with these highly controversial and political viewpoints has access to primary school children, whether it’s via face to face sessions, training school staff, or learning resources.

Of course Stonewall are not the only organisation which has these worrying beliefs. However, they are the biggest and most well funded. They are also listed on the Department of Educations “experts” page, despite breaching its own guidelines, which I think is wrong and also makes it very difficult for parents to complain to schools.

What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
WhistleStopCafeCook · 04/02/2021 23:07

It's really ridiculous. Growing up, I remember the dominating message being 'girls can like sports, wear shorts, have short hair and still be girls'. I was a complete tomboy and to an extent still am but I am 100% a woman. Under Stonewall I'd probably be 'flagged' as exhibiting signs that I was probably transgender. No, I was a girl who liked sports, wore shorts, and had short hair. All this 'progressiveness' is nothing more than a mask to enforce decades old gender stereotypes that should've been trashed and discarded in 2021.

LangClegsInSpace · 04/02/2021 23:10

I don't suddenly become not a woman any more and drop out of existence, or become any less of one by accepting people who are trans.

No, you don't. If you are an adult human female you are still actually a woman and everyone knows what a woman is really because every single one of us came out of a woman's body. If you're not sure about this then ask your mum.

You just don't have any rights or protections in the Equality Act any more because the words 'sex', 'woman' etc. no longer have any meaning.

OldCrone · 04/02/2021 23:12

All a school can do it respect a trans child's wishes regarding names, pronouns and uniforms and make arrangements for them to have somewhere to go to the toilet and change safely.

Without the consent of the parents?

This is from rogdmum's post earlier in the thread:

My daughter’s school follows the LGBTYS guidance (which I imagine is similar, if not identical to Sronewall’s). This led to us being told when she was 14 that we had no say in her being transitioned to a boy at school despite 2 mental health experts saying it is not appropriate for her.

These organisations are incredibly dangerous and pit children’s wishes against their parents’ concerns. There is no mention of professional opinion, only what the child wants, whether or not that is detrimental to their mental health.

This is not helping the child.

Winesalot · 04/02/2021 23:15

No lobby groups should be involved in setting school curriculum, regardless who they are.

gardenbird48 · 04/02/2021 23:29

How on earth can a school 'trans' a child? All a school can do it respect a trans child's wishes regarding names, pronouns and uniforms and make arrangements for them to have somewhere to go to the toilet and change safely.

Do you think there might be some safeguarding issues with allowing a child to use the changing and toilet facilities of the opposite sex? In the case of young 'transitioner's' there is a vast over-representation of girls identifying as boys so bearing in mind approx. 200 rapes take place in schools each year (that's not counting sexual assaults - just rapes) do you think it wise to potentially make a rape or sexual assault easier?.

My daughter's school is involved in socially transitioning a child without the permission (and possibly knowledge) of the parents (who are not abusive) - this is not acceptable. I have been told that if my daughter objected to sharing the changing rooms with a male transitioner, she will be expected to change elsewhere (or be educated to be nicer to the male). No mention about her friend who is muslim - that may also be a problem for her.

jj1968 · 04/02/2021 23:32

@Winesalot

No lobby groups should be involved in setting school curriculum, regardless who they are.
Does that include Transgender Trend?
Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 04/02/2021 23:36

This graph shows they've drifted from their origins and they are not heading in a good direction.

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?
Winesalot · 04/02/2021 23:37

Are Transgender Trend setting curriculum j j? Dictating what is taught?

They also do not have a pyramid of ‘champions’ scheme going that also allows them to have even greater influence on setting curriculum.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 04/02/2021 23:42

Had the trans 🏳️‍⚧️ (it has a flag !?) turned into a social contagion ? Affecting teens ?

I don’t want to deny it’s existence , and it’s always been around
But this many teens ?
Again I don’t want to sound like an old duffer but I don’t remember this when I was a teen
We were probably just as miserable as teens now , my 13 year certainly is having some heavy angst
And is very open minded , as many kids are these days

I don’t understand this

2fallsagain · 04/02/2021 23:52

@OhGodWhatTheHellNow

School secretary here and they popped up in the emails trying to sell their PHSE material and training courses. Hit DEL on that pretty sharpish , it is part of my job to filter out unwanted sales pitches...

I have had polite disagreement with the Head on ie supplanting 'sex' with 'gender' in the school inclusion policy as, although not disagreeing with me, she is reluctant to go up against County on this. (County that had to ignominiously withdraw their Allsorts-inspired Transgender policy after legal action elsewhere...) however it's academic as there is no money for the overpriced gold-plated Stonewall turds anyway.

I love this post. Well done!
Lumene · 04/02/2021 23:55

Lobbying organisations such as stonewall should not be teaching in schools, influencing the curriculum or giving incorrect, partisan or illegal advice to schools and teachers.

2fallsagain · 04/02/2021 23:58

YANBU

Stonewall should not be in schools for all the reasons listed in the OP.

There are resources on the Safe schools alliance website to help you challenge your school. And here is a critique of their primary resource

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/07/05/resource-for-parents-is-your-childrens-school-using-stonewalls-home-learning-packs/

pumpkinbump · 05/02/2021 00:16

@dumpling23

You are not being unreasonable. For just the reasons you outline, I don't want Stonewall anywhere near my children.

To the energetic amongst you - if you are concerned, there's a campaign afoot to send freedom of information requests to public bodies (such as Councils) asking about their involvement with this sad excuse of an organisation. You can submit the FOI to an organisation that affects you, or to another in the hope that somebody else will come along and FOI yours. All the information provided is public. I've just done it for an employer parallel to my own - I hope someone will FOI my own employer soon. It literally takes no more than five minutes. Here is the link:
legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/04/shining-a-light-on-stonewalls-activities/?_thumbnail_id=451
Let's stop wringing our hands over Stonewall. Let's get them out!!

Thank you for posting this. I will get on this and promote it.
cascade31 · 05/02/2021 00:18

It may have be already recommended on this thread, but Stephanie from transgender trend did a pod cast on triggernometry. She explains things so well. Would really recommend it. Opened my eyes to what is happening.

LangClegsInSpace · 05/02/2021 01:15

jj1968 - The statutory guidelines which schools must follow by law recommend Stonewall resources should be used in RSE lessons.

Do you honestly believe the government is legally responsible for the content of all the external links on the 'suggested resources' page? Do you honestly believe schools are legally bound to do what Stonewall says, even when that contradicts the EA and other laws?

jj1968 · 05/02/2021 01:26

@Thisisworsethananticpated

Had the trans 🏳️‍⚧️ (it has a flag !?) turned into a social contagion ? Affecting teens ?

I don’t want to deny it’s existence , and it’s always been around
But this many teens ?
Again I don’t want to sound like an old duffer but I don’t remember this when I was a teen
We were probably just as miserable as teens now , my 13 year certainly is having some heavy angst
And is very open minded , as many kids are these days

I don’t understand this

I was probably a teen at around the same time as you. I never told a soul I was trans. No-one I know from that era did. It's a bit like how your mum and dad probably didn't know anyone who was gay when they were teenagers. That doesn't mean gay people didn't exist.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2021 01:33

They were clearly saying Stonewall, as in you can't just go around saying something like fact about businesses/people/whoever if you're not sure.

You'll be ok with JK Rowling, Joanna Cherry, Rosie Duffield suing everyone on the internet who has done that about them then? I can't wait.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2021 01:34

And as LangClegsInSpace has just pointed out, Stonewall lie all the time about things like the Equality Act.

Yes. Surely "actionable" then?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2021 01:37

Lying? Who was lying? People have given their honest opinion about their interpretation of the government guidance.

YY. I think that resource page is an oversight. That's my interpretation. The government guidance is pretty clear as jj knew when jj was railing about how terrible it was and threatened democracy.

jj1968 · 05/02/2021 01:37

@Ereshkigalangcleg

They were clearly saying Stonewall, as in you can't just go around saying something like fact about businesses/people/whoever if you're not sure.

You'll be ok with JK Rowling, Joanna Cherry, Rosie Duffield suing everyone on the internet who has done that about them then? I can't wait.

I don't know about the others but Rowling has certainly been quick to threaten legal action even for quite mild criticism.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2021 01:40

Does that include Transgender Trend?

Pretty sure TT are just reacting to the ideological views of trans lobby groups being platformed.

If Stonewall/Mermaids are out and ideology isn't promoted, there is no need.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2021 01:41

don't know about the others but Rowling has certainly been quick to threaten legal action even for quite mild criticism.

Which is good, right? And the "mild criticism " you mention is saying that she is a transphobic bigot who shouldn't be allowed near children?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2021 01:42

There are resources on the Safe schools alliance website to help you challenge your school. And here is a critique of their primary resource

Thank you!

jj1968 · 05/02/2021 01:42

It's not quite the same either. Saying that schoos who work with Stonewall are breaking the law is an outright lie, claiming Rowling is a transphobe is likely to be protected under fair comment.

Wandawomble · 05/02/2021 01:43

@Whatwouldscullydo

Yanbu

Stonewall have redefined homosexuality ( check out their glossary if terms on the website if you don't believe me) as attracted to same gender. Not same sex. Under Sex they state that sex and gender are used interchangeably however their definition of gender makes it clear they are 2 different things.

Its harmful and homophobic.

This is horrifying. Didn’t they have a workshop on how to break down the boundaries of Lesbians as well? No place being in schools or anywhere near children.