To remove dd from RS

[MossandRoy]

The lack of balance is annoying. There is an assumption that there is a god. There is an assumption that everyone believes in that god. I can remove her. Has anyone done this successfully? I'm concerned she'll be given a hard time...

To me that's like not doing geography because you don't need to know what it's like everywhere else.
^This has got me thinking.

eeyore228 your DD is lucky to have such fair minded parents.

Not sure I would bother removing her in a secondary school as she can form her own opinions. Having said that Christian RE teachers can be annoying. One of my DC once wrote 'God does not exist' on a test or exam paper - it was not well received.

YANBU

However, you should give feedback to the school and tell them your concerns. Then wait for them to adjust. If they don’t - make formal complaints.

I remember sitting through RE lessons in school. Back then there was no philosophy as part of it (not before GCSE anyway). It was intensely boring.

My family has always been atheist and I just cannot see the point of learning about other people's religions. It would be like learning about someone else's hobby - but never taking part in it. All the details and none of the fun.

Unless she’s at a religious school you’re being completely unreasonable and clearly haven’t researched what’s covered in RE.

If she’s at a religious you shouldn’t have sent her there.

Also it’s compulsory. So you can’t.

@MissyB1

I would hate to live in a Country where teaching children about Religion was “illegal”. Sounds horribly oppressive to me. I’m glad to live in a Country that recognises the importance of education about all the different beliefs, the whys and wherefores, and the cultures and traditions attached to those beliefs. Education is the key to dealing with narrow minds. It won’t work for everyone, some people are so bigoted / narrow minded/ stupid that they can’t be helped. But I believe information and education are powerful tools that benefit the vast majority of us.

It was illegal in the Soviet Union and Eastern Germany both beacons of enlightened regimes well known for their humanist and empathetic outlook

The ignorance regarding this topic is staggering. OP if you wish you rd to received less of an education by all means remove her. Learning about world religions is closely tied in with history and culture. It's not about indoctrination but about understanding the world we live in.

Funny enough religion play a huge role in many parts of the world and looking at the halal section at Sainsbury's isn't quite the same as analysing and conceptualising about religious traditions and practices.

So, so ignorant!

Learning to listen to people you find insufferable and boring is a very useful life skill.

@peanutbuttermilkshake you are not wrong there.

Ask to see curriculum and does it cover atheism (atheists can be just as dogmatic, see Dawkins, R) and agnosticism. Does it look at different aspects of each religion - juest as an example: Salafist Muslims to Sufis?

Does it go into questions of doubt as well as faith? Many 'believers' have had spiritual droughts.

Personally, though I was a pagan (from fairly gentle Catholic primary) from a young age - really before I knew other people had the same beliefs - I loved RS and even chose it as an A Level as it gets to the core of what it is to be human - ethics, who we think we are, what our place is in the universe.

Led to a life long fascination in these things.

Thanks Mrs Carter - my GCSE RS teacher for sparking that - and a desire to visit India, seeing Hindu and Buddhist places of importance in real life :)

@Redburnett

Obviously it depends on the question, but surely it should have been preceded by I believe God does not exist, and then backed up by a robust argument. ‘God does not exist’ would be marked as a poor answer, by a teacher of any faith (in the same way ‘God does exist’ would be a poor answer too.)

I used to really enjoy RE as a child. I was definitely in the minority though. Despite my personal enjoyment of it, I do now question its value in a curriculum with so much else if arguably greater usefulness and importance that could be studied.

The plain fact is that the vast majority of people who are seriously religious are that way because they were indoctrinated into it as children. I’m not sure spending 100s of curriculum hours on such a subject is justifiable.

I would include it as a module(s) in history classes. The history of religion (east and west). Focus on its importance in a historical context rather than endless hours on the minutae of what people X do during festival Y.

@Redburnett

Not sure I would bother removing her in a secondary school as she can form her own opinions. Having said that Christian RE teachers can be annoying. One of my DC once wrote 'God does not exist' on a test or exam paper - it was not well received.

But in most exam senses that isn’t going to be an in-depth answer to the question. Nor would “god exists” I wokld assume the question requires a slightly deeper level of thinking than just asking the personal views of the young person!

Attending an RE lesson is absolutely nothing to do with nurses opting out of terminations! What an odd comparison! I agree with most people. There are a lot of things we have to do that we are not keen on. The other part of this is that if she is mature enough to argue about these matters and look for alternative viewpoints, why does she need to be removed from these lessons? You might also want to consider whether she might actually be misunderstanding the teacher's motivations. I taught RS for a while. I am a complete atheist. At the start of the year I explained that RS is learning about religions and that you did not have to have any particular beliefs to study what others believe. I did not then preface every lesson with a warning to remind kids that they did not have to agree with the beliefs we would be discussing.

Hmmm it seems like you have a negative attitude towards RS and have transferred this on to your DC. I'm surprised at the number of people who think RE is about indoctrinating children into believing in God or a certain religion. RE is about learning about different religions, exploring different viewpoints on important subjects like war, abortion, euthanasia, artificial insemination etc. Looking at philosophical questions such what is the meaning of life, reasons for believing in God etc. I graduated from high school fairly recently (2016) and I doubt anything has changed since. If your dc's high school is not doing this, then you need to ask to see the curriculum and/or complain to the school about this, don't take your child out of class.

My DC, then and now, (many years later) are convinced that God does not exist (if Covid does not convince people of this then I do not know what will). There is absolutely no scientific evidence that God exists but for some reason Christian RE teachers seem unable to grasp this fact. I use the word 'fact' intentionally. It has nothing to do with belief.

Baffles me why people get so worked up about their kids being taught there is a God. What on earth do they think will happen to them. I have 5 grown up kids. Three of them are believers, the other two are agnostic....But guess what, the 3 that believe are very well balanced happy people. Who'd have thought....

. Believing in God seems far more logical.

Atheists just baffle me.

I would be interested to hear what evidence anyone can come up with for the existence of God, any God, any religion.

Practising Christian here! I got a lot out of my RE classes that I took in my pre-Christmas days. I really enjoyed learning about other faiths and I continued my investigation through the years. As an adult, I read through an English translation of the Qu'ran and visited a mosque, went to a Buddhist centre several times, visited a synagogue and read around those faiths. I looked into Hinduism and even remember researching Zoroastriansim (sp), as well as paganism and even Wicca at one point! I have Muslim and Hindu friends and we like asking eachother questions. I had a radical experience which led to my conversion to Christianity, and am raising my children Christian. However I will definitely be teaching them what other people believe. I think it's good for everyone, believer or not, to know about what other people believe.

YABVU. By removing bet from the lessons you would be depriving her of the ability to make educated decisions about what she chooses to believe in. Don't force your beliefs (or lack thereof) onto her.

I'd just let her do the lesson. It makes more of a thing if you take them out IMHO.

@Dustyboots

I remember sitting through RE lessons in school. Back then there was no philosophy as part of it (not before GCSE anyway). It was intensely boring.

My family has always been atheist and I just cannot see the point of learning about other people's religions. It would be like learning about someone else's hobby - but never taking part in it. All the details and none of the fun.

Why are so many people determined to remove access to Family Planning Services?

Why do people plant bombs?

Why are there refugees?

Why does FGM happen?

Why are gay people attacked?

Why is Derry also called Londonderry?

Why do some people eat meat and others don't? Why do some eat pork and some don't? Why do some eat beef and others don't? Why do people avoid all animal products?

Why did the Holocaust happen? How did it happen? What can we learn from it to recognise the signs and try to prevent something similar happening again?

Why do people agree/disagree about causes of environmental change and whether or not anything should be done to address it?

Why could [that] person be telling you this as part of their campaigning for ....? Are they telling the truth and why might this be/not be the case?

What is the point of that particular imagery or phrasing in a speech?

It's not like learning all the rules and positions of Cricket or whether the Sir Nigel Gresley was a Pacific Class Locomotive or not. It's something that accounts for a whole world of human activity and motivations. It's about the state of being human and of how we interact with the world.

@redburnett

My point was, it doesn’t matter what faith the teacher was, the answer couldn’t score highly on a test paper, and the feedback will have been as such. The teacher’s faith will have had nothing to do with the poor feedback and subsequent marks. Rubbish answer = rubbish marks regardless of faith. Like I said ‘God exists’ is equally rubbish.

Unless of course, your child did back it up with a fantastic argument, and they were penalised for being an atheist? That would be wrong, but that is not an issue with all Christian teachers being annoying, that’s your child’s individual teacher being a prejudiced idiot.

@Redburnett

I would be interested to hear what evidence anyone can come up with for the existence of God, any God, any religion.

That’s the entire point. It’s why we talk about faith. It’s belief without evidence.

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that God exists

Arguments for God are not found through the scientific method.

“Though the sciences might be able to explain the chemical make-up of pages and ink, they will never be able to reveal the meaning of a book; and though they might make sense of the biology of the human body, they will never tell us why a human act is moral or immoral; and though they might disclose the cellular structure of oil and canvas, they will never determine why a painting is beautiful. And this is not because “science” is for the moment insufficiently developed, it is because the scientific method cannot, even in principle, explore such matters, which belong to a qualitatively different category of being than the proper subject matter of the sciences. The claim that “science” could ever provide a total understanding of reality as a whole overlooks the rather glaring fact that meaning, truth, beauty, morality, purpose, etc., are all ingredients in “the universe.” - Archbishop Barron.

@Redburnett

If you’re actually interested in facts, I’d start with; The case for Christ - Lee Strobel. Very good book (film too)

RE? RS?
It’s Philosophy and Ethics at my school.