To remove dd from RS

[MossandRoy]

The lack of balance is annoying. There is an assumption that there is a god. There is an assumption that everyone believes in that god. I can remove her. Has anyone done this successfully? I'm concerned she'll be given a hard time...

The same goes for gender studies etc. No reason why this cannot be taught as and how parents and the communities wish to teach their own children. No need for indoctrination to occur in the school system.

But then we would have generations of people being forced to believe in what their parents do and not realising what other faiths have to offer.

RS also teaches tolerance of all religions. If you are only surrounded by one religion which you know as the only true religion - then of course you are going to have a lot less tolerance - look at religious extremism/terrorists do you really think that they have RS lessons that teach tolerance of other religions or are they surrounded by people saying all other religions are wrong.

RS also teaches about atheism and agnosticism.
It is about giving a young person a choice on what if anything to believe in and to have compassion and tolerance for others that may not have the same views.

I think RS is mainly called ethics now.
I remember learning it 15-20 years ago and being taught about poverty in third world countries so it isn’t just solely about religion.

This thread has actually made me really miss these lessons! How did I grow up to be a science teacher

is it not possible for a school that already has a designated denomination to provide a balanced view on religion

Errr... yes totally. That’s what my ds seems to be getting at his Catholic senior school.

Even in faith schools though, although obviously they will teach the faith of that school as true they will still teach about other faiths and the beliefs of others - something which you wouldn’t get relying just on the place of worship to provide or that parents won’t always provide.

Personally I don’t like faith schools so chose not to send DS to one, in hindsight a good thing as he has decided at the moment he doesn’t believe in any religion. But many families do chose them for whatever reason and when that choice is made then you accept that religion will be taught as fact (I know too many areas there isn’t a choice which is wrong but a separate issue)

@Sirzy

Even in faith schools though, although obviously they will teach the faith of that school as true they will still teach about other faiths and the beliefs of others - something which you wouldn’t get relying just on the place of worship to provide or that parents won’t always provide.

Personally I don’t like faith schools so chose not to send DS to one, in hindsight a good thing as he has decided at the moment he doesn’t believe in any religion. But many families do chose them for whatever reason and when that choice is made then you accept that religion will be taught as fact (I know too many areas there isn’t a choice which is wrong but a separate issue)

I went to a Christian faith school, because it was my only choice due to where I live.

They 100% did not teach about other religions, ethics, philosophy etc. They taught very strict, judgemental, free Presbyterian values as fact. For example abortion is murder, no debate. Homosexuality is a sin by choice, no debate. All other religions are wrong, no debate.

We had forced religious assemblies (that were our "break time") that were like church services that propelled disgusting morals. Any concerns or opposing opinions raised by both students or parents were met with "if you don't like it, go to another school" - we shouldn't have to give up quality education because of a religious ethos. I think its wrong. They shouldn't be able to hang that over people.

Parts of other subjects where left untaught because it conflicted with their views (the big bang theory in physics class, bloody Sunday in history class, Irish politics in government and politics class, ethics and philosophy in re)

The RS classes pp are describing sound amazing, interesting and essential for education but unfortunately are not the same across all schools, and I think the OP is right to have a conversation with the teacher to make sure the school aren't pushing one particular narrative.

I know I am biased, but I don't believe religion belongs in schools - teaching about different religions - absolutely! But as long as its kept in check.

We are atheists and not thrilled about DS doing RS but probably won't withdraw him. I have to admit though we do sort of seek to undermine it from the inside. For example, last week he was doing the biblical creation story so we played him Ricky Gervais' take on it which led to much hilarity and a slant on the work I don't think the school were hoping for . We have also been known to draw the odd dinosaur on things as well

As an aside, I've also never understood or got a satisfactory answer to what anyone means by "spiritual development". You'll find it in a lot of school mission statements and prospectuses but never any explanation of exactly what that involves.

When most of the people I've met who have told me they are "very spiritual" further investigation usually turns up that it is them wafting around with some sort of "woo" and a scented candle

@PADH that’s a shame but definitely not my experience at a Catholic high school in the 1980s. I was in the debating society and we were encouraged to debate subjects like abortion/ cohabiting v marriage / what was happening in N Ireland. And there were lots of non Catholics at the school too.

@Flumpaphone

Why do you draw dinosaurs on things?

[quote MissyB1]@PADH that’s a shame but definitely not my experience at a Catholic high school in the 1980s. I was in the debating society and we were encouraged to debate subjects like abortion/ cohabiting v marriage / what was happening in N Ireland. And there were lots of non Catholics at the school too.[/quote]
That sounds much better than our schools set up. It still angers me that we lost out on such valuable education due to strict religious beliefs. I was in high school between 2009-2013 which makes it even more ridiculous. My sister is currently a pupil here and nothing has changed. Any wonder certain fractions of N.I. are the way they are. During my politics A-Level we did some cross community projects with a Catholic school, and the night and day difference in their teaching of the subject was shocking. Their classes was much more interesting and engaging, and actually allowed the students to question things. Much better teaching in my opinion.

[quote Flipflops85]@Flumpaphone

Why do you draw dinosaurs on things?[/quote]
I think that's a little strange, too - because adding Dinosaurs to images with humans is something that proponents of the Young Earth unscientific theory do.

RE is very useful in terms of knowing possible motivations and contexts for behaviour. And for understanding how not to offend/hurt people.

@Flumpaphone

We are atheists and not thrilled about DS doing RS but probably won't withdraw him. I have to admit though we do sort of seek to undermine it from the inside. For example, last week he was doing the biblical creation story so we played him Ricky Gervais' take on it which led to much hilarity and a slant on the work I don't think the school were hoping for . We have also been known to draw the odd dinosaur on things as well

As an aside, I've also never understood or got a satisfactory answer to what anyone means by "spiritual development". You'll find it in a lot of school mission statements and prospectuses but never any explanation of exactly what that involves.

When most of the people I've met who have told me they are "very spiritual" further investigation usually turns up that it is them wafting around with some sort of "woo" and a scented candle

Bet they find all that a right hoot in the staffroom.

I took religious studies to A level because it was an easy A so not biased but my best friend self removed during GCSE stating that she she was atheist and needed to study for her actual exams. Spent every lesson in the library. Teachers gave her a hard time but all the girls were jealous.

I learned about abortion, anomal rights and euthanasia in RE back in school so I think it is very important.

We had similar, a Catholic RS teacher who taught against abortion even though it wasn't on the curriculum and with a completely biased lesson plan, showing them visceral videos etc. She's left now and I only found out after, but I'm considering going back to the school to discuss it.

I was withdrawn from RE and happily! My primary and secondary schools taught it as fact and did not like it when I questioned it, if it was taught in a balanced way I would have been happy to learn.

I preferred to do my own research into different religions as I got older, I’m still an atheist but I enjoy my history and with history comes religion, it’s a huge part of the world we live in which is why I won’t withdraw my own children, I also want them to learn and make their own minds up.
I do love paganism though and follow the pagan festivities over the Christian versions.

When I took RE many years ago I loved the fact there was a real debate on ethics involved. Are you sure the teacher isn’t trying to engage the debate element? If they are doing the first bit it is mainly Christianity as most people are familiar with this but it then opens up to different religions. I’d stick with it to be honest as it has given me an understanding of different faiths and the people who follow them which has helped me in life

Im training to be a teacher, the new curriculum for wales aims at making RS compulsory so that you are unable to remove children from the lesson. Personally, I'd say keep her in the lesson, RS lessons are designed to teach children to understand that different people have different views and how to respect thoae views rather than to push a belief onto them. RS explores all different religions, not just jesus christ, son of god...and whether you believe in a god or not, i think it's beneficial for children to understand the different religions and what they stand for....plus, it's quite an easy GCSE to do as the questions are mainly opinion based

I personally have an issue with "all views are equally valid" approach. In my opinion, any RE content can be delivered only from a historical / artistic point of view. Otherwise, why not add antivax views to the biology curriculum too - it is also a belief held by a significant proportion of the population, fully comparable to a major denomination.

Flump - so you think teaching a child to be disrespectful about other peoples views in the right thing? Your attitude shows exactly why we need to teach children about different world religions and to learn how to disagree with others views in a respectful way.

Ds has taken the choice that he is an atheist and although I am a Christian I have no issue with that because it’s his personal belief and I respect that. I have also taught him though that he needs to respect the beliefs of others because faith is a personal thing.

@forinborin

I personally have an issue with "all views are equally valid" approach. In my opinion, any RE content can be delivered only from a historical / artistic point of view. Otherwise, why not add antivax views to the biology curriculum too - it is also a belief held by a significant proportion of the population, fully comparable to a major denomination.

Going completely off topic though would touching upon such things really be a bad idea? The increase in anti vaccine sentiment recently should be concerning and by discussing it and then helping young people find proper facts to build their own view on vaccine learning what is a reliable source we may go some way to tackling the issue with people believing anything posted on social media and building critical thinking and research skills.

If all we do is say “vaccines are good you must get them” (which is obviously the simple truth) then that doesn’t do anything to stop people being concerned.

DD is 11. I am an atheist and my DH was brought up Catholic and had awful experiences and is now atheist. DD requested to attend church. We went with her and have now been going for the last few years. She chose to be baptised and more recently confirmed. She does RS and has learnt about other religions and enjoys doing so. I believe that given the diversity of this world a balanced education is a good thing to ensure further acceptance and understanding of other beliefs otherwise the human race will never learn to accept we all do things differently. Ok so your daughter doesn’t have a faith but it’s also important for her to have a basic knowledge of the importance of it for others. I may not agree with my daughters belief but I wholeheartedly support her and she knows I’m not judging or laughing.

I went to a secular school but we still had compulsory religious assemblies. Seems wrong now looking back, foistering a belief on a child. I didn't have a problem with RS though as we learnt about all the big religions and learnt about being athiest/agnostic etc

@forinborin

I personally have an issue with "all views are equally valid" approach. In my opinion, any RE content can be delivered only from a historical / artistic point of view. Otherwise, why not add antivax views to the biology curriculum too - it is also a belief held by a significant proportion of the population, fully comparable to a major denomination.

I've known schools that include discussions about the antivaccination argument in Science (and when one had to deal with a small group of Evangelicals complaining about Evolution being taught, they dealt with that as well).

Very much enjoyed overhearing the reasoning as why vaccination isn't causing Autism as explained by one teenager to another outside my window just after the HPV vaccination letters went out

You can't just teach RE from a historical or artistic POV. Religion is intrinsically linked to Government and Politics, Geography, History, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Technology, Sociology, Ethics, Media Studies, English, MFL, even Mathematics, as well as Art.

It sounds like at least so far, they're just getting into religious studies. Our year 8's are covering theism, atheism and agnosticism at the moment. So it isn't fair to say that RS only has one focus. It just takes times to get round all the topics.

Why withdraw from history of religion? It helps you understand your fellow man. Many schools teach about arguments for and against God. Choose a school that teaches PRE if you want more of an atheist slant. Any decent teacher will teach "In the Christian faith", "Muslims believe" etc.

I'm going back a long time but RS was more about learning about other cultures and what other religions believe. It wasn't shoved in my face, you must believe on god (because I don't and nothing they would have said would have changed my mind). I think as long as the course is still as above it can only do everyone good to learn about other religions and cultures.