Nanny - hit me with your thoughts/guidance/experience

[oblada]

Here for traffic really.

My youngest has got some additional needs. As such she requires some extra care and attention. I'm on mat leave and planning my potential return to work (if I do return to work - still considering staying at home too..). Nursery isn't going to an option and nor is a childminder realistic really. So we're looking for a nanny. I've crunched some numbers and I think we can afford it.

We have 3 other children, all will be at school during the day by the time the nanny starts with us (age 4, 7, 10).
I'm thinking of £12 gross per hour for about 36-38hours per week. I'll probably take the 3 kids to school but she will pick them up and have them after school. For the pay - It seems to be average to good in my area (North West, not a major city). I think anyway... well I'm hoping so!

Either myself or my husband are likely to be working from home at any given time during the week (ie between the 2 of us, one of us will be home during the week) but there is enough space for her to make ourselves sparse whilst working. Not planning on micromanaging anything but at least we're there if there is an actual issue to handle related to her additional needs.

What are people's thoughts and advice on employing a nanny?
I'm comfortable with the HR/payroll side due to my professional background, I can handle that myself.

What else should I consider? What should I worry about or plan? I'm trying to set a rate of pay that is good but also doesn't stretch us massively so there is room to manoeuvre for activities for the nanny to take the kids to and also for bonuses if relevant etc.

Any experience on employing a nanny? Any experience of being one and what you liked/disliked?
Just trying to visualise things (I'm a planner and my youngest has thrown quite a spanner in the work when it comes to planning....).

If your youngest is likely to need a trachy soon or has anything that might hint at medical care needs then choose your nanny carefully. You ideally need someone with complex care experience. Once she has the trachy you then become eligible for continuing care funding. It wont cover all your costs but goes some way towards the costs of nursing care e.g. overnights. Be aware though that £12 per hour is very low for a child with complex care needs though. You probably know this already but a child with a trachy has to be line of sight at all times. No nipping out to take a quick phonecall or taping a 10 minute break while the baby plays sort of stuff. Depending on which sort of trachy she has, if she cries or chokes then this may be sound less and you wont be able to hear her if she needs help quickly.

I would suggest going through SNAP as well. It'll cost you a small fortune, however they really do know what they are doing with regards to children who have complex care requirements. I have recruited nannies through SNAP before. It's a whole lot easier than doing it yourself. As for the payroll, I used a payroll company because paying the tenner a month or what it was them was a whole lot easier than having to deal with HMRC myself.

As for the holidays, its usual to have a 50/50 split. You might find it difficult to recruit a nanny if you dont let them choose at least some of their holidays.

I had a the same live in one for 11 years.

Make sure you have a contract

Saying she takes holidays when you do, that's incredibly unfair.

I mean seriously unfair because you are then restricting her to expensive times of year during school holidays.

If you expect to attract the right nanny I'm afraid you are going to have to show some flexibility like all employers

@Londonmummy66

You normally pay a nanny net so if you are offering gross you need to scale it down to net before you compare hourly rates. You also normally feed a nanny all the meals that she has whilst working - so if she starts early to give the children breakfast then she should be offered that as well. She would expect you to provide lunch and if she is cooking for and supervising the children's meal in the evening then you should expect that she will eat some of that too. In any case it is good for the children to have someone to eat with them.

I was once told by my very experienced nanny that if you don't have a fridge full of diet coke your children will have no friends (as the other nannies won't come round....).

They should pay the nanny net as the employer needs to make the deductions, but they should certainly discuss salary as a gross, like all employers do. OP cannot know what the nanny’s tax code will be at this point, they may have more than one job or be repaying an underpayment or student loan etc.

OP. I don’t know about going rates, but £12 an hour for four children plus one with additional needs, doesn’t seem right to me.

Thanks rubbish - re the trachy - we plan to be home (me or DH) so in that way I don't think it will be that complex if that makes sense. Whilst we'll be working, we are flexible. Her care needs are not that complex. Even with a trachy it is likely that she would be able to be heard as the trachy isn't there to circumvent weak lungs but to deal with a narrow upper airway and the need for facial surgery. Anyway I may have to take the plunge now with normal care and adjust as we go along. I'm on various trachy groups and in touch with others with similar condition as our youngest so I feel I have a good understanding of where we fit in the care 'spectrum' but I appreciate the views :)

Re holidays - I'll have a think. In many jobs holiday dates are very restricted. Realistically there will be 4-5 weeks in the year where we'll be physically abroad at least. So that will be her holidays as a starting point. I should be able to allow her to take other weeks off paid during term time as my mother in law tends to come for 2 months in the year and my parents come for a total of 6-7 weeks across the year and are very flexible. So maybe we'll end up with 5-6 weeks of paid leave or more. don't know I'll have a think.

Thanks April. It's rly mainly looking after a 12months old for 24-30hours per week and her siblings (3 of them) will tag along after school but not require much input. If anything I would imagine the nanny may enjoy the time when the older are around much more...

Also - I don't always take time off during school holidays either anyway :) if we manage to go skiing next year it will be term time (with a bit of luck the nanny will fancy joining us.. But no obligation though she would be paid then and not on holiday of course). I plan way in advance so plenty of notice and happy to discuss other weeks that suit her best etc. I'm quite flexible on balance I think...

Re tax free childcare, the gov top up is on what you put in, not what you take out. So I think you can just put the same amount into all 3 accounts and pay the nanny using one per month, so Jan’s payslip from child 1 account, Feb from child 2 etc. It does mean you can’t do direct debit - but we always have variable babysitting and mileage to add so we always do it manually anyway.

As someone who has employed a nanny for 11 years take it from me. You won't attract the right nanny you want if you dictate their holiday leave.

You can state your preference for their holiday times etc of course but you are creating a source of conflict from the outset.

I would always sit down with mine at the beginning of the year and talk through key dates etc and her needs for that year so we both knew where we were.

And bare in mind that your preferred candidate maybe someone with family overseas as mine was so liked to take up to 3 weeks as a block once a year and then odd days here and there.

Point is, it's their holiday entitlement.

@FudgeSundae

Re tax free childcare, the gov top up is on what you put in, not what you take out. So I think you can just put the same amount into all 3 accounts and pay the nanny using one per month, so Jan’s payslip from child 1 account, Feb from child 2 etc. It does mean you can’t do direct debit - but we always have variable babysitting and mileage to add so we always do it manually anyway.

Thanks, that makes sense. I think the max contribution is 500pounds per 3 months to a rotation between the 3 accounts every month should work well actually...

Jeaux - thanks. Let's see. In my role I work with small to medium business helping them with their HR needs. So that puts me in good stead in terms of understanding entitlement and also general practice in small business in the region. Let's see, I'll definitely discuss it with prospective nannies to understand their expectations and work with that.
Not that likely to come across a nanny with family abroad in my region - not that I have an issue working with that given it is our personal situation, both me and DH. As mentioned, with my parents and MIL coming for weeks at a time I think we'll be fine on offering enough flexibility if planned and discussed in advance.

The norm for nannies is that you choose half of their holiday dates, and they choose the other half.

So if they have 20 days’ leave, you choose 10 of them at your discretion. For their 10 days they apply to you for approval of those dates (like a normal job) - we’ve only turned down a request once and it was for a week I’d been booked to have surgery! Generally we chat about plans for the year pretty openly and see what works for us all.

Btw our nanny does come on holidays with us - obv paid, we cover all expenses, and we adjust her hours so she gets time off in the day to enjoy the beaches etc, it’s a really good perk of the job for her!

the norm for nannies is not going to be the same as the norm for small businesses in the NW with potentially seasonal business / manufacturing shut down, and with respect, HR'ing small business is veyr different to the nanny / employer relationship. Being aware of legal entitlements is all very good, but there tends to be the need for a great deal more flex and understanding with a nanny.
As the others have said, it's incredibly standard practice for a nanny to choose half her holiday time and to take half at the same time as the family. She may then get extra time off when you're not there, but she is available and willing to work so of course still gets paid. Your role has a number of quirks to it already; adding an onerous holiday provision is going to make it not a very attractive prospect for the kind of nanny who has the pick of the roles. And that's the kind of nanny you need for a child with high needs.

Yeah I think it’s worth remembering that nanny jobs work differently to most jobs!

Every nanny we spoke to expected to agree a net salary - obv you put the gross salary in the contract, but nanny roles are generally advertised and agreed as net rates.

@FudgeSundae

So your nanny has to bring all her own food to your house? That seems incredibly mean.

yeah - my blueberry bill for one nanny was huge - it eclipsed the coke / dr pepper budget for her predecessor, but was well worth it!

Hah yes our nanny has a knack for choosing the nicest most expensive food in the fridge, it’s definitely a cost to be aware of!

@SnackSizeRaisin but you can’t just have a bog standard business insurance as a Nanny (like I have when I go to work). Nanny’s transport children as part of the business and they have to a policy that covers that. Same for childminders. OP Morton Michel is very good for “childcare” insurance.

[quote bloodyhairy]@FudgeSundae

So your nanny has to bring all her own food to your house? That seems incredibly mean.[/quote]
Haha we are clearly incredibly mean then! At the time of hiring, we were two busy professionals who ate breakfast, lunch and often dinner outside the house, with an unweaned baby. We just didn’t have much food in the house and I wasn’t about to do a food shop just for the nanny. It would be different if we had primary aged kids and a full fridge. She brings a packed lunch and seems happy 🤷🏼‍♀️ I think these things are fine if you’re clear upfront.

Salary: Always gross. I've been trying to get rid of net pay within the industry for well over a decade and more nannies do understand that gross means parents can calculate how much it will cost them. Nannies now have basic PAYE calculators on their phone as an app, or via a website, so they can quickly determine from a gross pay rate what their particular take home pay is likely to be (admittedly it is on a Month1 basis calculation but it gives a general idea). www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk is popular at the moment with nannies as it is quite easy to use and has a tab for the pension options.

Tax Free Childcare - you already know about the £500 topup per per child, per quarter limit. So to get around that one you do up to £2000 in to the account per child per quarter and split payments out to the nanny. I often get 2 separate payments from TFC for one family with 2 children. Not an issue as long as the total I receive matches the net pay shown on the payslip.

Tax Free Childcare can also be used to HMRC the nanny's Income Tax and National Insurance you have deduced from them... plus the Employers National Insurance. The aim was to have all the costs covered but alas too tricky to get HMRC/TFC to agree to allowing the pension payment, payroll admin payment, Ofsted registration fee and other such things. Least did win the argument on getting IT and NICs. To do this you can find the option in Manage Your Account, it should say something along the lines of "what to do if you employ a nanny". Alas as being a nanny myself I have never seen the parents side of the system.

A few random thoughts, OP.

I have never had a nanny (was a SAHM), but my DC had several friends with nannies - and I became friends with the nannies as a result.

I think the difference between this and what you're suggesting is that the nannies basically did the job of a SAHM. So, apart from anything to do with their employers' personal finances (obvs), they did exactly the same stuff that I did. One of them was looking after a child with quite challenging additional needs (ASD, so different from your youngest's needs).

The only time I saw things going a bit awry was when the roles weren't entirely clear - which invariably meant when a parent/the parents were around as well. This tended to end up with the children in a tizzy and the nanny and parent/s not knowing who was in charge (in the particular case I'm thinking of, the household was 100% peaceful when the nanny was in sole charge, and 100% chaos otherwise).

I am completely in favour of nannies over any other childcare option - but I think it is much, much harder to make a success of it if the parents are physically present. If you are in the house, but working, the arrangement is only likely to work if you have a blanket "I am now at work" policy, and don't allow yourself to be disturbed for any reason at all (I appreciate this is more difficult when your youngest has additional needs).

Generally, IME, nannies do absolutely everything that a SAHM would do, bar anything to do with her employers' personal finances. This would naturally include name-tapes, packed lunches, dealing with tradesmen, waiting in for parcels, sorting stuff out for the charity shop, etc, etc, etc.

This is just a thought, and feel free to ignore - but in your position, I'd wonder about trying to find an older woman with young adult children. She would be more experienced across the board, and would possibly also be more reassuring - which would in turn enable you to get on with your work. An older woman would also be thinking less about career advancement, and possibly more about doing something fulfilling that would bring in some money but not the kind of money that you need if you're planning to buy a house/car/have children etc.

Thanks everyone!
Vulpius - thanks! Useful thoughts! I think in our case I'm looking for something between an au pair and a formal nanny, I'd like more of a partnership between the nanny and us. I don't need anyone to take over most of what I do, just some help looking after our youngest whilst I'm working... lets see. I think the part re parents being present may have been an issue before but now with covid/working from home/kids off school I feel it may be easier than before to find the balance. My husband has been home working for the past year (and me for 6months) with very minor issues. Initially our 3yrs old would play up a bit but now he's adjusted to that and so have the older kids. They know they shouldn't bother him when he's working but even then his work (and mine) is flexible so he can take breaks etc whenever he fancies and attend to the kids.
Fingers crossed I find the right match.
So far mostly found interest from young women currently working in nurseries and looking to move to nannying, which may be a good fit... but I'll look at all the options!!

I pay more than that per hour for my cleaner. I’d want the person looking after my children to be better paid than that.

@MintyMabel

I pay more than that per hour for my cleaner. I’d want the person looking after my children to be better paid than that.

Do you employ your cleaner full time and pay employer NI and pension? Its not really comparable. Anyway cleaners around here are more 10pounds per hour though I pay mine 12pounds per hour.

Good luck, OP. You will just know what works best for your family, when you find it!

Thanks :) fingers crossed...

I agree it's low but I live in a different area. You need to think about the desirability of the job. Why would I take £12 to look after 4 DC one with additional needs when I could get the same or more looking after 1 or 2 children?

My advice would be to check references VERY carefully, then check again, check their social media profiles if you can too.

We got burned by a lovely seeeming young nanny through childcare.co.uk who lied to us (fake references and fake employment, massive partier who turned up to work still off her face as it transpired). Pretty hard to prove who is who when previous employers are parents.