Nanny - hit me with your thoughts/guidance/experience

[oblada]

Here for traffic really.

My youngest has got some additional needs. As such she requires some extra care and attention. I'm on mat leave and planning my potential return to work (if I do return to work - still considering staying at home too..). Nursery isn't going to an option and nor is a childminder realistic really. So we're looking for a nanny. I've crunched some numbers and I think we can afford it.

We have 3 other children, all will be at school during the day by the time the nanny starts with us (age 4, 7, 10).
I'm thinking of £12 gross per hour for about 36-38hours per week. I'll probably take the 3 kids to school but she will pick them up and have them after school. For the pay - It seems to be average to good in my area (North West, not a major city). I think anyway... well I'm hoping so!

Either myself or my husband are likely to be working from home at any given time during the week (ie between the 2 of us, one of us will be home during the week) but there is enough space for her to make ourselves sparse whilst working. Not planning on micromanaging anything but at least we're there if there is an actual issue to handle related to her additional needs.

What are people's thoughts and advice on employing a nanny?
I'm comfortable with the HR/payroll side due to my professional background, I can handle that myself.

What else should I consider? What should I worry about or plan? I'm trying to set a rate of pay that is good but also doesn't stretch us massively so there is room to manoeuvre for activities for the nanny to take the kids to and also for bonuses if relevant etc.

Any experience on employing a nanny? Any experience of being one and what you liked/disliked?
Just trying to visualise things (I'm a planner and my youngest has thrown quite a spanner in the work when it comes to planning....).

I know that's sth I've thought about. But I think things have changed lately. My husband has been home working for a year now (and I did too for 6months) with the kids around a lot of the time and we've managed fine... We have flexible jobs so can take a break here and there to attend to the kids if need be. And the house is big enough I think...food for thoughts..

Sorry meant to quote the bit re home working

My advice would be not to just think about the short term but the longer term too.
If you have a 10yo, is s/he off to secondary this year or next and, if so, how will they get there and back and how might that affect the nanny's role?
If you're currently on mat leave, your littlest is still little. What is their prognosis? Will they be able to go to pre-school when they're 3 and benefit from the free hours? If so, what will you want the nanny to do during that time? It's fairly usual for them to do household chores but it is worth making that clear now.
If they're leaving at 5pm, are you expecting them to have cooked for the children and cleared away their tea? Or dish up their tea just before they leave? Or, if you all eat as a family later, prep food for your evening meal?
Our nanny is only after school and would have been with us until 6pm. Then I had the brainwave that, if I employed her until 6.30, she could drop the kids at their evening clubs on her way home. This has transformed our lives (well, does when clubs are running). I used to race home from work, grab the kids, dash to drop them off and then always had the dilemma to stay or nip home again. Now, I can have a slightly more leisurely finish at work if I need to, get home just as they're leaving and then have the best part of an hour at home before going out to get them (traffic has completely died down by the time I pick them up). It's amazing! Oh, and the nanny also makes their packed lunches for the next day as that is one of the jobs that I find soul destroying!

@TheKeatingFive

Sounds like you’re expecting a lot for the hourly rate you’re offering. When we hired a nanny in London, I found that anyone halfway decent was naming their price to me.

So good luck, I guess. Certainly what they offer is worth a significant premium compared to nursery.

A good childminder might be a (cheaper) option too. It would certainly take some rooting around to find the right one, but they are out there.

Thanks! Why do you feel I'm expecting a lot? London is a different world to be honest, I'm in a deprived area in the North West not London :)

Effectively it would be roughly 9am start 5pm finish 4 days a week, shorter day Friday, looking after a 1yr old from 9am to 3pm then fetching the 3 older ones from school.
My older 2 are self sufficient but also v helpful with their siblings. Food will be provided, sometimes she cooks sometimes we cook. No driving around planned. Hopefully enough kitty money to keep everyone entertained.. And we'll be around to help (though I appreciate some may prefer for us not to be at home...but I feel on balance it would be better for our youngest)...

Thanks Whoateallthechocolate - loads of useful thoughts!
For dinner - we would sort that ourselves. My husband is a keen cook so in practice I doubt the nanny would even have to cook for lunches when he's around. He's been doing all the lunch pretty much for the past year even though I'm on leave atm :)

For prognosis - yes she should be able to go to pre school though its not straightforward. By then she may have a tracheostomy in place around that age for a period of time due to some surgery she will need to undergo so difficult to plan long term but if her care needs increase that way I'd expect to increase our nanny's pay (as we'd get DLA too anyway) and she's learn, with us, how to care for our daughter. She is not expected to have very demanding care needs long term or learning difficulties but I cannot promise it will all be easy peasy hence why us being home and flexible in our roles is important I think. I'd like a partnership with the nanny if that makes sense. But I cannot rly plan the future that much.

For my oldest - she is September born and only 9 atm (will be 10 when nanny starts) so got a couple of years still. The secondary school is walking distance I'd expect her to be independent in that respect.

SNAP care seem to have a monopoly on the market for nannies for children with SN in my area, and they are nationwide. I’m sure they would be able to suggest a going rate. Their website has lots of guidance on it, you may not need to contact them.

@WellTidy

SNAP care seem to have a monopoly on the market for nannies for children with SN in my area, and they are nationwide. I’m sure they would be able to suggest a going rate. Their website has lots of guidance on it, you may not need to contact them.

Oki I will have a look. Though I don't plan on using an agency as the extra cost is simply not justified when I can sort out (most likely better) all HR and payroll issues myself...

@WellTidy

SNAP care seem to have a monopoly on the market for nannies for children with SN in my area, and they are nationwide. I’m sure they would be able to suggest a going rate. Their website has lots of guidance on it, you may not need to contact them.

Thanks a lot for that suggestion! Just had a look briefly and it's quite helpful. Saw a Nanny job in London for 2 v challenging children for 28k. So I think I'm not too bad with my 23.5k starting salary in the north west for my situation :) I'll see what interest I get anyway. Certainly useful reading!!

I’m glad to be of use! We’ve had to use snap twice, because in our area (south east) it is very hard to recruit anyone suitable for the job (nanny and tutor to our 8yo DS who has classic ASD and other co-morbidities) - they’re all on SNAP’s list though. That makes it easier and quicker, but more expensive. If you can avoid agency costs, then good for you, they’re eye watering, and vat is charged on top. Good luck with your search.

Nursery costs in the north west are about half to two thirds of London prices...so maybe the difference in nanny pay is similar?

If they have Business insurance on their car (which they will need) it really hikes their premiums so I can understand why 45 p is used.

In my experience adding business use to car insurance doesn't affect the premium at all. It is the total mileage they care about - so if the extra business use means they have to increase the annual mileage that would cost extra. In my case my business mileage is within the 10,000 miles I have on my insurance so it is basically free of charge. (Apart from the £30 ish to add it on partway through the year).

Just as guidance, we pay £15/hour gross, with decent perks, for a 42 hour week. That is inside the m25.

@Londonmummy66 you never pay nannies net - always, always agree a gross. If they ask you for a net salary, you just show them what your grossed up salary would be net.
OP I never went through an agency - utterly pointless as they rarely checked them that well. I'm also from the NW originally - Stockport - and £12/gross is fine for the area.
We've had 4 nannies and 9 au pairs.
Make sure that they are happy to do basic household tasks like emptying the dishwasher, clearing and tidying up after afterwards. Make it clear that they won't be tidying up after you, but they need to tidy up completely after the children - inc kitchen areas.

We've always said no to any childcarer having their friends in our house -

Our nannies took the children to a paid activity a couple of times a week, which they chose (they were working 3 times a week) and the following one they met friends at the park. But you do need to factor in bored nanny syndrome - they need some other adult company.

When you're giving out a contract make sure it has a clause that you can claim back holiday pay that hasn't been accrued out of final salary, plus extra costs if the nanny fails to give proper notice.

You also need to sign up to the pensions scheme, as an employer you need to pay contributions - I'd recommended doing it on the www.thepayrollsite.co.uk/
you also need public liability insurance which you can get through your home insurance company.

Snack - yes my experience is also that business insurance is peanuts. The 45p per mile is in theory petrol + wear and tear. But legally it isn't required as long NMW regs are met.

Underneath - thanks for that :) we're not far from you, we're near Warrington (go to Stockport area quite a bit for French class and Indian dance class - pre covid of course - all online now).
For the contract - I'm an HR consultant so it'll be nice and tidy :)
Thanks for the advice re website. I was looking at the payroll software from HMRC - have you used that before?

I'm down south now, but family is still Stockport based. The payroll software at HMRC doesn't allow for updates as easily as the payroll site and they also have email advice line that you can easily access. Although to be fair, we're not used it recently as we've had au pairs as my children are older.
I used the payrollsite when I was looking after HR for our local preschool too and they were good.

@underneaththeash

I'm down south now, but family is still Stockport based. The payroll software at HMRC doesn't allow for updates as easily as the payroll site and they also have email advice line that you can easily access. Although to be fair, we're not used it recently as we've had au pairs as my children are older. I used the payrollsite when I was looking after HR for our local preschool too and they were good.

Thanks! Much appreciated :)

I think £12 an hour is actually the higher end for the north west. I would say to get a trained nanny either NNEB ( a few still about) or Cache Childcare and Education. Your child with additional needs will benefit. I am not saying that some untrained nannies can’t be wonderful.

Childcare.co.uk I think that is the site has nannies looking for jobs and parents looking for nannies and expectations of pay.

I hope this helps. I am an NNEB Dip. I was working in education as a HLTA and I was earning just over £12 an hour. We spent a whole term on Special Needs at college which stood me in good stead for working 1:1 for years. I found it very rewarding. Good luck you sound like a lovely family to work for.

Think about how you will arrange her holidays and yours and agree this in your contract.Will she drive her own car? Think about fuel costs, check her/his insurance. Agree a gross wage, never net. It's good that you've actually thought about the fact that you'll be an employer; so many people think nannies are self employed! They hardly ever can be.
Be upfront about what you want in terms of managing behaviour, preparing food, any household duties etc. I would say keep out of the way as much as poss. It is ten times harder to manage children when mum/dad are around. Kids act up when they are unsure who's in charge. I find it is best if parents tell their kids 'nanny is in charge now'. Good luck!

@Redsquirrel5

I think £12 an hour is actually the higher end for the north west. I would say to get a trained nanny either NNEB ( a few still about) or Cache Childcare and Education. Your child with additional needs will benefit. I am not saying that some untrained nannies can’t be wonderful.

Childcare.co.uk I think that is the site has nannies looking for jobs and parents looking for nannies and expectations of pay.

I hope this helps. I am an NNEB Dip. I was working in education as a HLTA and I was earning just over £12 an hour. We spent a whole term on Special Needs at college which stood me in good stead for working 1:1 for years. I found it very rewarding. Good luck you sound like a lovely family to work for.

Thanks a lot for this! Yes childcare.co.uk is the site I'm using. Used it before to find a childminder for my first one so just updated my profile on it. I want to make sure I do right for everyone - the nanny, our family and of course first and foremost our youngest daughter.

Net salaries are a minefield as you have no idea what they’re tax affairs are like.

If they have anything other than a normal personal allowance it becomes daft.

You’re the employer - quote the salary you want to pay gross and then you know where you are.

Thanks Stroppy!
Being in HR I'm pretty clued up on that side at least :) holidays should be fine. I expect I'll give her the standard 5.6 weeks or thereabout. DH and I have got more than that in our jobs and we also have my parents who usually come a week or two at a time and my MIL who comes for extended periods of time. So sorting out cover should be easy enough. And in practice we may be able to give her more paid leave than initially planned.

for nanny holidays, it's not hte number of days that you give which is the issue, it's who gets to pick those days. Usually half chosen by nanny / half dictated by family. If you're on holiday when nanny is working, she's obviously still paid in full (& maybe there is a day or so of child related admin to do in that time which is reasonable enough. Bath toys in the milton and sorting out the too-small clothes / nametapes sort of thing)

I think your salary is ok considering you’re offering full time hours. We’re in the south west and do £11.50 gross for a 44 hour week. We only have two but they are babies so more work. Pension and employer NI is a killer - remember you can’t claim employer NI allowance on nannies! I also work in a similar field to you OP but I LOVE our nanny payroll service - removes all the hassle when the payslip just arrives in my inbox!

You’ll know this but have a contract that is very clear and explicit, especially about the following areas:

• what you expect her duties to include and not include - particular minefields are cleaning (usually only child-specific), cooking, laundry, hoovering. Most of the time nannies will not do housekeeping type things unless you specifically make clear that’s your expectation.
• as a PP has said, holidays - how many days, who chooses them, how much notice does she need to give?
• food - when our nanny started the oldest wasn’t yet weaned and we were working out of the house so we (unusually) said we wouldn’t provide food. That was fine for our nanny and has worked well for us but you’ve got to be clear about it.
• kitty - we pay for one weekly toddler activity a term, and will reimburse up to £20 of mileage per week. We have a small cash kitty (£20-30) and a book to note expenses which are usually v minor. All costs over £10 need a receipt.
• like a PP, we don’t have other nannies and kids round, but are happy for them to be taken to others or meet ups in park etc as long as we know where they’re going and also very clear that nanny is in charge - ie it’s not ok to leave baby with a friend while nanny gets a coffee.

A nanny is a huge expense for us (1.5x our mortgage) so we’re probably a bit tighter around the little things than some are, but so far our nanny seems happy!

I had one and would never do it again. Initially she was so helpful and that quickly became sneaky and interfering.

@EuroTrashed

for nanny holidays, it's not hte number of days that you give which is the issue, it's who gets to pick those days. Usually half chosen by nanny / half dictated by family. If you're on holiday when nanny is working, she's obviously still paid in full (& maybe there is a day or so of child related admin to do in that time which is reasonable enough. Bath toys in the milton and sorting out the too-small clothes / nametapes sort of thing)

In our case the nanny will have to take her holidays during our own holidays or at times when my parents and MIL are here. My parents are very flexible and so are we so it doesn't mean it will be arbitrarily dictated, it will be discussed, just like a normal employment relationship.

Thanks Fudge thats helpful. Do you pay via the tax free childcare system and if so do you split the pay using both your kid's accounts? That's one thing that may be a bit messy. I want to use the tax free childcare system but to make full use of it would need to split the pay between say 3 kids...