To let my 16yo fail?

[Pandoraslastchance]

16yo is doing AS level art(as well as geography and English literature and language) She has one zoom lesson a day of about 30 minutes(I'm not happy with this lack of eduction from the 6th form as i hoped that the teachers would provide more work for the students to do as lockdown progressed)

We are struggling so much right now. She is the eldest of 3, has her own room, her younger sisters are in bed by 7. 16yo has from 7 until 9 for homework etc.They are all being homeschooling by myself and my partner(he is my carer)

Younger ones are completing their set class work(years 3 and 1) reading, spellings, daily maths work sheets, class topics etc with a slight battle tbh but that's to be expected.

16yo is putting in the absolute bare minimum. This weeks homework for her was to submit her sketchbook via PowerPoint. So literally just taking photos of her sketches and putting them on slides on PowerPoint, not hard, difficult or time consuming. It was due in today at 5pm. I have been asking all week if she has homework or any tasks set from the last zoom session. All i get back is groans or she grunts "I've done it" etc. I warn her not to leave it until the last minute.
She was also set a task to present 6-8 photos on a topic of their choice. The photos have to be edited,filtered etc and presented in a 'zine' format (bit like a mini magazine or pamphlet). This is due in next week. If it was left to her it would be 6 photos stuck on a white piece of card and handed in. Me and her dad have been saying she needs more content than just the photos. She chose a topic of japan and there is so much such as certain colours, artists, art mediums such as block printing , culture, modern Japan vs the different time periods etc( me and her dad managed to completely fill a A4 sheet of paper with ideas within 5 minutes).

Guess what time she submitted her sketch book? 4:45 pm this evening!! We had Internet difficulties yesterday as it was up and down like yoyo. I keep telling her not to leave things to the last minute, to put more effort in with things.

Me and her dad were the ones who sat and brainstormed her topic as she just sat there.
Do we sit back and let her fail? Or do we keep practically doing it all for her?

OK ive realised that I cannot win. If I email the school demanding more work then I am not being considerate of the teachers who are juggling home/work/making zoom lessons and doing their best as I've seen on other threads about schooling.

She only bothered to submit her sketch book via PowerPoint 15 minutes before deadline as her teacher reminded them during the weekly zoom lesson. I have asked her every day does she need help, what does she need to do today and when is it due so if I ask her then I'm nagging but if I don't ask then I'm not supporting her? Is asking her once a day what her plan is enough to send her towards a nervous breakdown? Really?

I cannot win. I don't have the finances to fund her repeating her A levels if she fails(yes I failed at the mumsnet standard of not being able to financially provide for my children until they are in a career)

So frustrating when you know they can do better. I don't know how teachers do it, as its obvious to all you far superior parents.

I don't know how teachers do it

Because we understand not everyone will ace everything. Not everyone is brilliant at everything.
And that the worst thing you can possibly do is mould a child into the person you want them to be, and not who they are meant to be.

I messed up my A Levels and GCSEs. Could've done waaaaayyy better. Still have a v successful career and earn a lovely wage every month. So why does it matter

Haven’t read the whole thread but we have had similar dilemma with our son. At the end of the day I think as a parent you support them but if they are not motivated then nothing you do will change this and sometimes maybe they need to screw up. 💐

Art must be one of the harder subjects to do remotely without access to all the school supplies and facilities.
Has she just lost the love for it?
What does she want to do after her A levels?

You need to back off and let her get on alone. You said teachers said she needs to try harder and put more effort in . She wont if you constantly check what shes done . I have a year 13 I learnt many years ago that he needs to do things for him self. My role is to provide the internet and a quiet place to study which your doing. Let her fail now. Perhaps she can re sit the year if needed. Or change to a different cour6 if a levels aren't for her. If college dont know she struggling they cant help sort it out.

I find it weird why people are so against teaching her the value of time management skills? Yes she isn't in uni yet but it's a good attitude to account for unexpected delays to make sure you submit things on time and meet deadlines.

It's not asking too much for a 16 year old to try and be mindful of deadlines in case something happens or she falls behind on one of many deadlines that students often have at any one time.

I get what you are saying OP and I don't think you are doing anything wrong at all. It's very easy to criticise the OP if your child will still do some work, even if it's not to the best of their potential. That's fine and you justify stepping back and letting an A student get a B or C. But the OP is saying her child is doing nothing or very little which is a different ball game.

To sit and watch a child totally fail and lose a lot of self confidence along the way is incredibly hard. I am trying my best with my lazy DS1. He has ADHD and his focus is just terrible so I help him with organisation and layout and trying to keep things simple. I don't do his work but I do facilitate him to do it (reluctantly half the time).

@peanutbutter00

I find it weird why people are so against teaching her the value of time management skills? Yes she isn't in uni yet but it's a good attitude to account for unexpected delays to make sure you submit things on time and meet deadlines.

It's not asking too much for a 16 year old to try and be mindful of deadlines in case something happens or she falls behind on one of many deadlines that students often have at any one time.

But what one person classifies as good time management will vary so much between them and another person

@Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor

Art must be one of the harder subjects to do remotely without access to all the school supplies and facilities. Has she just lost the love for it? What does she want to do after her A levels?

She wants to be an illustrator.

We bought her every art supply(within reason, there's no space for a kiln) that she had listed on the syllabus at the start of the course and regular top ups when she runs out. She gets a monthly art box from scribbler that has artists, different techniques and supplies to test out. This month is tombow double ended brush pens.

I'll try to step back, let her sink or swim. I just wanted her to have the opportunity to go places as she is so bloody bright and creative.

YABU. My parents didn't know anything about my homework when I was her age!

She's old enough to decide how much effort she wants to put in, if she's not bothered then she'll only fail next year if you force her through this one.

She wants to study art at university.

Honestly I'm not being a tiger mum and beating my child if she only gets 98 out of 100 on a test. She is submitting the absolute bare minimum above nothing.

She was told when choosing her a levels how much work art is, she spoke to colleagues of mine/Facebook friends who did art A levels.

You can't drag someone through an A level. GCSE yes, keep nagging, but A levels require a fairly substantial level of self discipline and independent work and if she won't do it she'll fail.

Leave her to it.

You've obviously provided her with everything you can to enable her to do well. The tools she needs, the space etc.
But the last bit she needs to do herself.

By micromanaging her now, you're delaying her learning the importance of time management. Once she's uni aged that's £10k of tuition fees per year - best that she learns now.

My teens usually have their AirPods in so can't hear each other during the day. They are either on Teams or Spotify. I think it would be unreasonable to complain to school about the online learning if your dd is unwilling to put the effort in for the very little that she's getting.

I've read on here that some schools allow kids to repeat y12. If she fails then that might be the nuclear option that you can use. Most kids don't want to move to another school and be in the year below (would that work as an incentive?) While I sympathise with her for having low motivation, she's so close to finishing school. Does she have any plans for after y13 or the summer holidays (restrictions permitting)?

@ShitPoetryClub

Oh God OP, I dunno, but I remember those days well and you have my sympathy. I considered completely backing off but never did at GCSE. At A level they largely chose subjects that I couldn't help with and they did manage to sort themselves out a bit. Be sure to encourage her to go to a uni at the opposite end of the country.

Same with DD. She was much better at working for her A levels, and is now at university where she has no-one to remind her. She manages to meet her deadlines. Penalising marks for late submissions is a brilliant incentive to get work in on time.

Not saying she has any neurodiversities but she might find the strategies that are suggested for adhd helpful. Particularly time mgt & procrastination stuff.

Adhd foundation & additude magazine are good resources.

I failed lots of stuff, it's difficult at the time but there's always alternatives.

I think you need to work out whether she just doesn't want to, maybe art isn't the subject for her, or whether she hasn't got the skills to organise and motivate herself.

I have a DS who is basically failing Y12 (we discovered on Thursday), and it turns out it's because he's overwhelmed, he finds the work hard, his confidence is through the floor, he's missing his usual routine. I'm helping him to catch up, just by encouraging him, making sure he's up, showered and fed, making sure he's got a plan for each day, cheering him on as he does pieces of work that are long overdue. And telling him how great he is. He wants to do well but he's got himself into a situation that he doesn't know how to get out of by himself. So I'm going to help him and also try to teach him the tools he needs to keep himself on track in future.

It's hard work though and not always gratefully received
Good luck!

This may sound unsympathetic, but I don't mean it that way; it sounds as if she's got into fixed patterns, one of which is letting you do the worrying. It sounds brutal when I suggest that sooner or later she will slip up, but in the long run, would it be better to stub her toes a bit while she's still under your roof? Have a brisk dialogue with her current teachers, who have known her for a while? Or carry on in a similar fashion in her fresher year? (I've heard of more than one former VIth former coming unstuck in the heady freedom of leaving home - but this year is so different to any other, of course!)
If she does come unstuck, bags of sympathy but let her know gently that it's her problem to solve, offering her support if she needs it. She does deserve sympathy as well; it must be so heard to keep on track for the most motivated pupil at this time.
I wonder if her teachers already have some inkling that she needs to take more personal responsibility, or is the perception that her work is of a good standard, coming in on time?

’She's ways been like this. Since she started getting homework.’

Then, however much you want to help her fulfil her potential, your current approach isn’t working. You’ve spent 5+ years trying to get her to put more effort in, encouraging her, reminding her and trying to help her. She’s still the same. You have done everything you possibly can. The only thing you haven’t tried is stepping back.

She’s of an age where she needs to take responsibility for getting her work done and in on time. If she wants to go to university she needs to put in the effort to get the grades she’ll need. It’s up to her. I’d sit her down and say that you see how much potential she has and that you’ve done everything you can to support her. It’s not easy with schools being closed but it’s how thing are at the moment and she has a quiet place to work and all the kit you’ve provided. The rest is up to her. You’ll always be there if she wants to talk through ideas or if she needs help with something but she’s not a child and you’re not going to treat her as one.

If she is going to screw up it is much better that she does it now when you’re there to help her get back on track afterwards than in 2 years time when she’s 200 miles away at Uni, incurring ££££ debt and with no experience of managing her own workload without heavy supervision.

The truth is, OP, that if she hasn't got the motivation to self-start then she is not going to get through an A-level in Art, let alone university. Your approach seems geared towards a much younger child. She is 16, she really has to decide for herself whether she wants Art A-level, university etc badly enough to do some work. And a career as an illustrator would take a lot of self-starting.

I have one child who is a self-starter (but still had to wait 2 years, doing low-paid jobs, before she got into drama school) and one who wasted his time at school and is now working in another low-paid job. He admits that he should have worked harder, but also admits that that was something he had to do for himself, not something we could do for him. He is now applying for vocational courses, having saved quite a bit of money.

I don’t think my parents ever knew what my homework was at 16. I always did it as far as I can remember, but I don’t think they bothered finding out what it was. School would have phoned them if they weren’t happy or I wasn’t doing it.
You sound over involved - let her get on with it, she’ll probably enjoy it more without you and her dad getting too into it.

Ffs. DS just discovered his biology textbook. He's had it for months but never cracked it open before. Says he'll have it to hand during lessons in future.

www.amazon.co.uk/New-Level-Biology-2018-Complete/dp/1789080266/ref=sr_1_1?hvlocphy=9046611&hvnetw=g&keywords=aqa+revision+guide+a+level+biology&hvadid=259122756954&qid=1612218595&dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu7TSnd7J7gIVB-J3Ch26PwdVEAAYASAAEgJtd_D_BwE&hydadcr=11497_1841786&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&hvtargid=kwd-455129787569&adgrpid=58660394572&hvrand=12037128383728431064&sr=8-1

This is for AQA.

Leave her to it, I say. I teach at university and whatever deadline I set, only about half of the students make it. The others aren't usually very late, but it's an hour, two hours... very different from when I was at university in the late 90s when you knew that the lecturer only checked their pigeonhole once, to pick up the essays being marked, and so you either made the deadline or you didn't.

Perhaps she's not engaged by the material, but it sounds as if she's doing enough. You can't make her succeed.

Honestly I also think you need to back off a bit, you’re pushing so hard it’s having the opposite effect. You’re not being supportive you’re on her case.

Did you say to her well done for getting it done and ahead of time? I’m guessing not. You gave her a hard time for not being even further ahead if time.

You need to try to be supportive, not pushy, because you’re just pissing her off and it’s having a detrimental effect.