How would you react if a family member or a friend chose not to have the vaccine?

[Laiste]

Is this going to divide people and friendships?

(i know it's a minority who wont have it, but still ... how do you feel?)

I think you know what I was driving at. You can’t single out one behaviour from all the rest.

I wouldn’t react. It’s not my decision to make. Covid has made ppl extremely judgy. I am currently not having the vaccine as I am ttc. I absolutely know ppl r judging me. I haven’t told many ppl that’s why because it’s my business and I can literally read the judgement in ppls faces... not nice

I’d expect the anti vaxxer to pay additional national insurance to cover their higher risk of needing treatment from the NHS.

Let's also charge extra to everyone who's overweight, even more for those who are obese. Also smokers, drinkers, those who take part in any risky sports, anyone who engages in a high risk lifestyle, casual sex, drugs. In fact people who dare to get old are at higher risk of needing NHS treatment too so let's have an age tax aswell.

You know what, let's just go the whole ways and introduce a China/black mirror style points system where everything you do gains or loses you points based on its risk and morality. If you dont have enough points you don't get access to the NHS, or how about any public services including schools, roads ect. Sounds great doesn't it

You’ll love me, I declined my vaccine, critical worker. I won’t even justify it to you because it’s none of your business due to your superior attitude.

I see it as with vaccinations there are 3 outcomes.

1. Most people choose to take up the offer
2. Most people choose not to take up the offer
3. Everyone is forced by the government to have the vaccine.

Now I'm glad we have a choice and I rather people choose not to have it than are forced to have it. However, I hope most people will have it. If someone told me that they are not going to have it (assuming its not for a medical reason such as allergies, TTC etc) I'd be disappointed, but I wouldn't hold it against them forever.

There seems to be a lot of "it doesn't stop you spreading it" on this thread. Now I thought that whether or not it stops or reduces transmission is not yet known and will take a few more months to find this information out. Therefore, scientists that are studying the vaccines haven't been able to say that it reduces transmission That does not mean it doesn't stop you spreading it. We simply don't know yet.

In answer to a PP who doesn't understand why anyone who would only get Covid mild would consider getting the vaccine. I'm getting it as soon as I can because I feel that it is my duty to help out society by having the vaccine in case it does turn out that it does help reduce transmission/spread. Also because you don't know you would only get it mild. You might be unlucky and get it quite severe even though you are low risk. People have.

Having said all that we are all different and have a different view on things so I don't expect everyone to agree with me, just putting my thoughts out there.

They know I'd be furious. I took part in vaccine study. They know how I feel about it. Thankfully my family/friends trust medicine and science. So I'm not concerned.

There seems to be a lot of "it doesn't stop you spreading it" on this thread. Now I thought that whether or not it stops or reduces transmission is not yet known and will take a few more months to find this information out. Therefore, scientists that are studying the vaccines haven't been able to say that it reduces transmission That does not mean it doesn't stop you spreading it. We simply don't know yet

Exactly.

Not been goady @Beetlewing but how is it having another half like that. 10 years ago before all this bollocks was fashionable my brother got sectioned - pretty much the only symptom was a rabid belief in bonkers conspiracy theories.

I’d ignore it as anti-vaccine folk seem to be mainly the type looking to pick arguments.

You’ll love me, I declined my vaccine, critical worker. I won’t even justify it to you because it’s none of your business due to your superior attitude.

It's because you have no reason other than you are scared. You do realise the vaccine probably means many of us will catch it. Not get poorly and pass it on to those who are not vaccinated. Who will then perhaps become seriously unwell with it.

I’ve not read the full thread but all this have the vaccine or don’t go to x y z event etc
. The vaccine doesn’t stop you getting or carrying covid, all it will mean is those who chose not to have it may catch it from you and be very unwell. I’m baffled by a lot of the vaccine talk if I’m honest, it isn’t going to eradicate it.

I see many have already said what I did.

My sister is a nurse, has had her jabs, still got covid, still felt like shit but didn’t need anything more than rest.

I agree. It's all about getting vaccinated for the sake of everyone. If enough get vaccinated the virus has a hard time finding people to infect and the epidemic will start to die out. And it is important for people who cannot get vaccinated. Not those who just choose not to.

Yes, there will be uncertainties but I'd like to think that not only are people getting vaccinated to keep themselves safe, but also to keep others safe.

I cannot imagine deciding not to have it.

@Imissmoominmama @Hotcuppatea

I see vaccinations as prophylactics not lifestyle choices. And they only work if they have a majority update - protecting those who genuinely can’t have them. In general having a vaccine has no impact on people’s enjoyment/experience of life.

I wonder if all the anti vaxxers were made to signup to their non vaccination stance as a long term commitment whether they would. At the moment there seems to be a lot of I’ll go after you then I’ll know it’s safe.

If we are going to start taxing people based on nhs costs we need to first target obese people- that’s the largest drain on nhs resources and is causing huge problems ( and also high death rates from COVID in this country) and financial impacts to the nhs
Bet this idea won’t go down well here!

It is none of my business, so I would respect their choice. I wouldn't even question it.

and unlike other vaccines for say Polio or TB, there is no proven track record of safety or efficacy

@ElliFAntspoo I am old enough to remember seeing people who'd had polio as children (specifically, one of my school teachers, and an older child at secondary school). And also to see people with TB in sanatoria, before the intensive antibiotics were developed which (mostly) cure TB (although not if idiots keep demanding antibiotics like sweeties from GPs for viral illnesses!)

I've had a smallpox injection (travel & living elsewhere as a child), and I've seen what happens if you don't have such vaccinations.

I also work in a research university in a senior role, and I know (because I oversee ethics committees, and conduct research reviews) the rigour of review of any research, and especially research involving live humans! I reject your vague insinuations of a chain of corruption or obfuscation of the data about these new vaccines. These questions - and more - will have been asked and the answers tested with intense scrutiny.

I'm quite shocked to hear on the Today programme this morning that up to a fifth of care home staff are refusing the vaccine. They're putting their own health, but also that of others, at risk. The more people whose bodies can resist this novel Corona virus, the safer we all are.

So yes, I judge.

@Chocowally- those aren’t anti vaxxers though- those are people with anxiety because of how quickly the vaccine has been produced and approved. What those people need is a readily available, easy to understand information and a lot of reassurance. Instead they’re being demonised, and their fears ignored.

Well... QueenoftheAir just gave easy to understand information from a professional stand. I'm not sure what more those who choose not to.. want.
There is lots of information out there, I wonder if they have researched it?

Here is the World Health Organisation for starters, explaining how it has been done rapidly. And here.

The vaccines were developed so quickly because after Ebola they set up the building blocks ready for the off go... and limitless money was thrown at it. The scientists knew the virus's biology, they were not starting from scratch because of Mers, it was not completely unknown. So I cannot listen to all this 'it was developed too quickly'.

And I am proud of my DD who had the Novavax vaccine in the human trial to others to have it.

I find it hard to understand people saying they would respect their choice. I wouldn’t at all. They have the right to their choice, but don’t expect other people to respect it. There’s nothing to respect. It’s something to be ashamed of.

Well, that all depends on whether you believe people should be helped based on need, or whether us and our friends should get priority because we are rich and f"ck the poor people in other countries.

I for one think this is a world crisis and people should be helped based on risk of death and need.

Yeah, so do I.

But it will mean those of us who aren’t in the priority groups will have to wait longer for our vaccines than we are currently expecting to wait (like I said). So a lot of this self-righteousness over having the vaccine or not might become a moot point, at least temporarily.

We don't actually know that it stops transmission yet though. It just stops the vaccinated person from becoming severely ill themselves. They could still catch and pass on Covid.

So all of this 'im not seeing my MIL who's refusing the vaccine until we've all had it' is pointless. You could still give her Covid and if she hasn't been vaccinated then she could still get very ill.

Surely if it doesn't actually stop transmission, the only people likely to be affected are the ones who refuse the vaccine themselves when they become ill from it.

Vaccinated people may still get Covid.

@Roussette

I agree. It's all about getting vaccinated for the sake of everyone. If enough get vaccinated the virus has a hard time finding people to infect and the epidemic will start to die out. And it is important for people who cannot get vaccinated. Not those who just choose not to.

Yes, there will be uncertainties but I'd like to think that not only are people getting vaccinated to keep themselves safe, but also to keep others safe.

I cannot imagine deciding not to have it.

But if it doesn't stop transmission then it literally doesn't keep others safe. It keeps you the vaccinated person safe from severe illness. That is all. (Until we know more about the effects on transmission).

But there are people who just cannot have it. They will know on the transmission issue as time goes on. I think it's wrong to say 'it doesn't stop transmission' without looking at what the science says.

So far... from the New Scientist...
'People who have been vaccinated against covid-19 can still catch and transmit the virus, but are significantly less likely to do so than unvaccinated people, the latest data suggests'

Prof Van-Tam confirmed at a Downing Street press conference on Wednesday that the research was under way and it would be a question of “to what extent”, not if, vaccines cut transmission rates.

Patrick Vallance, England’s chief scientific officer, said: “You don't have vaccines of this efficacy without there being some effect on transmission,” adding that this research would “determine to what extent these vaccines can be used across wider society to reduce transmission overall"

Strangely enough the point of vaccines isn't to stop transmission but it's a bonus when they do, which is why they all rely on large vaccination rates to keep those who cannot be vaccinated or have become otherwise vulnerable safer. Transmission drops when there's less people to infect. The other diseases we vaccinate against still exist, but the herd immunisation via vaccination means their transmission is minimal. The point is to stunt transmission, although when vaccines can stop transmission that's awesome.