To think that JK Rowling is being very unfairly treated.

[Impatiens]

For some people the name JK Rowling seems to have become a byword for 'bigot' or 'transphobe' - you only have to mention her name on twitter to cause a storm of accusations and abuse about her and I think it's really unjust.

This week it was announced that a new Harry Potter TV series is in development. Cue howls of outrage from certain people, repeating the same insults and even accusing her of being a bad influence on children. I feel so bad for her. She's always been someone who seemed to want to do good with her wealth and whose books (whether you like them or not) sent a positive message about the need to fight against evil.

A very brief recap of things Rowling has said about the trans debate that have caused anger -

1. Human biological sex can't be changed (females can't become males/vice versa) and no one should lose their job for saying that.

1. The word 'Woman' is being erased, particularly from important health messages that only affect females, and replaced with dehumanising terms like 'menstruators', 'cervix-havers' etc

1. Children/young people who have Gender Dysphoria/Identify as Transgender, shouldn't be given medication as part of any treatment because they're too young to understand the potential side effects.

YABU = JK Rowling's comments were offensive and she deserves the abuse she gets
YANBU = JK Rowling's comments were respectful opinions and she's entitled to voice them without getting abuse.

It’s not primarily to do with preferring stereotypical activities of the other sex.

It actually is. 6 out of 8 checks for confirming if a child is transgender has to do with playing with children of the opposite sex, playing with toys of the opposite sex or wearing clothes meant for the opposite sex. 2 out of 8 have to do with not liking your body, very normal for children especially starting puberty, or feeling distress over your body. Later two are not mandatory to have before you can be affirmed as transgender.

Did you know Dutch treatment, the one everyone else always refers to because they came up with the treatment with puberty blockers, don't start treatment for children who say they are transgende around puberty as that time of life is just too confusing for all children and they don't want to make mistakes?

@Impatiens

I've never personally thought of her as a bigot - I reserve that for Linehan and co - but I would probably call her views transphobic and disappointing, yes. Which is not something I want to support. Just as I wouldn't buy from Jeffree Star.

I'm not familiar with Jeffree Star, sorry.

Isn't there a gulf between not wanting to support someone and thinking they're transphobic? To me, an accusation of 'transphobia' is a very serious issue because it's basically saying you have hatred and disgust for trans people.

Well, you did ask me if I thought her views were transphobic? I do. I'm not sure what else I can say about that one. And as her views are so against my own values, I don't want to support her. The two things are very much intertwined.

It doesn't mean I think she's an evil person or anything, I just strongly disagree with some views she has. I'm sure she does a lot of great other stuff.

JStar is worth a read up on btw if you enjoy internet rabbit holes but he's really just an example name. I can swap him out for Mike Lindell, the MyPillow guy if that makes more sense? I would never buy from him due to his Trump support.

No you should say what specific views you think are transphobic

Puberty blockers will allow them to transition to the person they want to be and not stick out for their whole lives as some kind of oddity.
Whoever posted this gem, please also post the original paper of the registrational clinical trials that were conducted before approval of this use of these drugs.

@SionnachRua again which of her views are transphobic? Which part of what she said about bathrooms do you disagree with?

She's bloody awesome. I enjoyed her books, & whilst she clearly raided quite a few other authors I'd rate more for literary merit, they were thumpingly good page turners, which my own young dc, & many of the students I teach, found to be a gateway into reading Proper Big Books.

So I was generally admiring & well disposed, but THEN she spoke out of the GC issue. Kindly, wisely, & bravely.

For that, I admire her immensely. Also, someone in her office sends lovely replies if you email in support - my youngest got a name check - along the lines of 'JK says hi to & good luck with ' - & was possibly the most chuffed 11yo in Chuffedville.

She's a good egg, & I think history will reflect that.

@midgedude

No you should say what specific views you think are transphobic

Nobody who claims she is transphobic seem to be able to do this. I wonder why.

@SionnachRua I don't know Mike Lindell either, lol!

No, it's fine, I asked and you've been upfront. Trouble is, like I said, calling someone transphobic is a very serious accusation and the ppl who attack her online seem to feel justified in any level of sick abuse because they do consider her to be evil and not just a person with another opinion.

@ToadsThePeanutButterSnob

There used to be a regular poster on here who took puberty blockers for a short time as an adult and was quite vocal about the fact they had destroyed her health. She regretted taking them and was horrified by the fact that they were being given to children with no thought to the lasting consequences to their health.

I have asked for the scientific data that support the use of these drugs. We can all go to sleep now, those data aren’t coming any time soon.

[quote Impatiens]@SionnachRua I don't know Mike Lindell either, lol!

No, it's fine, I asked and you've been upfront. Trouble is, like I said, calling someone transphobic is a very serious accusation and the ppl who attack her online seem to feel justified in any level of sick abuse because they do consider her to be evil and not just a person with another opinion.[/quote]
Ah ok. Maybe I am just very bad at thinking of examples of people I boycott! Harvey Weinstein then but I don't want to compare JKR to an actual rapist.

Yeah, I'd agree that there's a huge amount of online abuse in her direction. Which is wrong imo. I do think some of it has to do with the age of some fans and the fact that they related so strongly to Harry... I don't think it justifies it but I feel it must play in.

I'm calling her view transphobic, not her as an entire person. I feel there is a difference there - another forum I'm on has the rule of "attack the post, not the poster". If you're arguing over views rather than someone's entire personhood it seems easier to maintain a civil debate, you know? Maybe that is just me getting bogged down in detail.

What view isvi transphobic

Spit it out

I'm calling her view transphobic, not her as an entire person.

Yes but which of her views are transphobic? You seem to be struggling to answer that .

@ToadsThePeanutButterSnob

I'm calling her view transphobic, not her as an entire person.

Yes but which of her views are transphobic? You seem to be struggling to answer that .

Take the hint I'm not arsed to get into things with you and the other poster.

@Impatiens

Puberty blockers will allow them to transition to the person they want to be and not stick out for their whole lives as some kind of oddity.

How will puberty blockers do that? They can't make someone change sex.

Also what will the other consequences be? A lifetime of ill-health? That's not something a young person can possibly comprehend or properly consent to.

They don’t. But they stop development of sex characteristics and hopefully allow the child to reach an age where they can make a more informed/educated/capacitous decision.

I am very gender critical, and as I said already I fully agree with JKR. I just don’t think it is a totally black&white issue. There is a difference between the childhood gender dysphoria that has always existed (extremely rarely) and the adolescent onset dysphoria of the last 10 years or so.

@SionnachRua why not? You're getting into things quite deeply with the OP.

Someone posted a link to JK's essay earlier in the thread. All you have to do is find a couple of views expressed by her that you find transphobic. It's surely not that difficult.

Nothing she has said is even an opinion, it’s all factual and I’m unsure why people find the truth so upsetting.

IRL I don’t know anyone who doesn’t agree with her.

She is bloody amazing. She is supportive of trans people by the way. She isn’t remotely transphobic. She just wants a decent discussion around the nuances of some of the consequences and for hard fought women’s protection not to be eroded

YANBU. It’s insane.

They don’t. But they stop development of sex characteristics and hopefully allow the child to reach an age where they can make a more informed/educated/capacitous decision.

And what happens if they decide they don't want to transition? Do you think they just stop taking the puberty blockers and then puberty returns as normal? Do you really think it's that simple?

A lot of brain development happens during puberty. Do puberty blockers not stop that brain development? Or are puberty blockers able to distinguish which aspects of puberty to stop and which ones not to?

And here's an important one; if puberty blockers do block all aspects of puberty including brain development then how is that child/teen supposed to make an informed decision is their brain development has been delayed?

Do we even understand the long term effects of puberty blockers on brain development?

It seems somehow strange to be certain that someone has written something but be unable to say what it is.

Perhaps this is a literal case of something being "unspeakable".

For the record, I have had a low opinion of the Harry Potter books since, oh, when is it the first one came out, 1997? because I found them derivative and unoriginal, and the grammar in them, especially the later ones, was dire (someone needed to tell her the difference between a , and a ; and that they are not interchangeable, for instance). But I think she has been calm, reasonable and able to write sense on this subject, and I applaud her for that. Especially in the face of death threats, rape threats, attempts to silence her, vilification, and rather stupid people parroting the above from what appears to be a position of ignorance.

*if

I'm calling her view transphobic, not her as an entire person.

It’s like saying ‘hang on! I only bombed Bin Laden because I didn’t like their terrorism. I didn’t want to kill him really!’.

(Sorry for the macabre analogy)

It's more like saying I only killed Jesus because he upset me

A quick Google search shows that there is little to no research on how puberty blockers impact brain development. So if we don't know how they effect brain development then how does the argument that they will be able to make a decision later hold any weight? And more importantly why the hell are we dishing them out to our kids when we have no idea how it is impacting their brains or if any impact is reversable?