AIBU - Pride & Prejudice.

[2020iscancelled]

A much beloved book
A fantastic BBC adaptation mini series

Then the horror of THAT awful, awful Keira Knightly film.

I knew it was bad but I rewatched it recently and it is just terrible.

I will concede the film itself is fine, the locations beautiful and no issues with the acting per se. But it is so far away from the real P&P it’s actually criminal.

So AIBU?

YABU - it’s wonderful and sums up the story to perfection.

YANBU - it’s an abomination

Yes. That's true about both Harriet Smith and Jane Fairfax. Both could not marry young because of barriers in their personal circumstances. On the other hand, Jane and Elizabeth Bennet are gentry and respectable in their antecedents. On the face of it, a Lucas cousin might even have appeared to offer a hand in marriage. To be sure, Gardiner would have had suitable potentials amongst his connections. The Bennets could probably have afforded to wait and be choosy. And it fits with everything shown about her character that Mrs Bennet would be worrying hysterically before she really needed to.

Going to London was also an option for meeting potentials. So despite the paucity of balls in the Netherfield area, I guess the sisters had good reason to be optimistic.

But then Charlotte Lucas's position was better than there's in terms of wealth and her father's status - and yet she wasn't counting on a better offer.

Off the back of this dd1 (aged 11) and I watched the kk film. She really enjoyed it and I enjoyed explaining some of it to her. It's not perfect but it's not awful and a good intro for her as well - she's seen sense and sensibility but preferred this.

MM is a reasonable Darcy I think - gets the social awkwardness and I love the proposal in the rain. I like Mrs B and Jane and also Charlotte and Mary. Dd felt terribly sorry for Mary and I found the relief and pride of Charlotte when she had her own home quite touching. I love the look and the soundtrack and as someone up thread said, the scene when they are lounging then turn into ladies is great.

I think Emma next or maybe Clueless (which contains my mums favourite movie line ever; when talking about her virginity ' you know how particular I am about my shoes and they only go in my feet').

Really loving this thread- thanks all!
I studied p&p for gcse English lit in 1998, and we watched the bbc version as part of it, can’t get over how lucky we were-such happy memories!

I seem to be in the minority but I loved AS as Mrs B, she makes me cringe up and die but so does the book character too. I remember reading in Bridget Jones, when she interviews CF, and he says that Andrew Davies asked him to assume Darcy has an erection when he walks with Lizzie. Every time I watch that scene now I can’t get it out of my head! 😂😳

(Note, I know it’s not true!)

On the back of this thread, I am rewatching Lost in Austen.

It really gives an interesting perspective to Mrs Bennett - her love and concern for her children and how she stands up to Lady Catherine. This is much more my perspective of Mrs Bennett and Alex Kingston and Hugh Bonneville do a much better Mr and Mrs Bennett.

I also love how Mr Bingley stands up to Darcy - "damn you!"

I don't like the switch of Georgiana and Wickham though regarding who was to blame.

Where can I watch Lost in Austen please?

I remember reading in Bridget Jones, when she interviews CF, and he says that Andrew Davies asked him to assume Darcy has an erection when he walks with Lizzie. Every time I watch that scene now I can’t get it out of my head!

Note, I know it’s not true!)

It actually is true! When Darcy sees Lizzie after her walk to Netherfield when Jane is ill he was told to play it like Darcy had an erection

I think the treatment of Mrs Bennet suggests how much importance Jane Austen places on intellect.

Mrs Bennet is being sort of affectionate to her youngest daughter when she fetes Lydia, and lauds the bride, the wedding trousseau, the handsome son-in-law, etc, etc. Well, she may think she is being kind, but the upbringing she has given the girl has been a disservice. The irony; the dialogue makes very clear that Austen wants the reader to feel as Lizzy does: to experience that absolute disdain and disgust for her immoral sister and the foolish mother. ( Who always loved a uniform, so Lydia is a chip off the old). The way Mrs B insults Darcy when he comes back to Netherfield ( thinking he has messed things up for Jane) only underlines how outrageous she is. This is how Austen sees her, imo. I don't think it's Andrew Davies diverging from the 'script'.

I can't quite see that Mrs Bennet has sensitivity and delicate concern for her children. I have always thought the point of her is that she is shallow and thick - and that's an anathema to Austen ... andDarcy, who couldn't admire a woman who doesn't read.

If Alison Steadman hadn't been waving her chicken drumsticks about, boasting with her mouthful and loudly crowing over Bingley's interest in Jane ( and other gents to be vacuumed into her orbit) would the balance of the novel be right - would we have any sympathy for stuck-up Darcy? Teenagers especially tend to view all this Victorian etiquette as horribly snobby. I think Davies did a good thing in fine-tuning the audience response. Casting and balance are his forte, imo.

I disagree with Austen and think she places an absurd emphasis in intellectual intelligence and wit. It actually annoys me that kindness is seen as a foible.

I'm still aghast that KK got an Oscar nomination for this. She can't act. Wooden as the table I'm sitting at :-(

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows you can watch lost in austen for free on Amazon Prime

Keira Knightly is one of those actors who imo play a narrow range around themselves. Every now and again something comes along where she fits the role, I haven't personally found it because I rarely watch anything with her in it these days, but it was always a case of watching Keira Knightly in a film, rather than whoever she's attempting to play.

But as someone else said in the thread she's one of those solid dependable actors you can rely on, so why wouldn't you want her in your film, especially since she brings in the money.

Diverseopinions Jane Austen died 20 years before Queen Victoria was crowned so she wasn't a Victorian. It's a very common misconception. Austen's intellectual snobbery and brutal realism about human foibles are really Georgian, and quite different to the sensibilities of the Brontes and later 19th century novelists. It's what I love about her (I find all that Victorian melodrama and sentimentality a bit tiresome!)

@Diverseopinions

I disagree with Austen and think she places an absurd emphasis in intellectual intelligence and wit. It actually annoys me that kindness is seen as a foible.

Anne Elliott is kind (visits old friend fallen on very old times when her family are aghast at her 'demeaning' herself like this) and is one of her best-drawn characters.

@Diverseopinions

I think the treatment of Mrs Bennet suggests how much importance Jane Austen places on intellect.

Mrs Bennet is being sort of affectionate to her youngest daughter when she fetes Lydia, and lauds the bride, the wedding trousseau, the handsome son-in-law, etc, etc. Well, she may think she is being kind, but the upbringing she has given the girl has been a disservice. The irony; the dialogue makes very clear that Austen wants the reader to feel as Lizzy does: to experience that absolute disdain and disgust for her immoral sister and the foolish mother. ( Who always loved a uniform, so Lydia is a chip off the old). The way Mrs B insults Darcy when he comes back to Netherfield ( thinking he has messed things up for Jane) only underlines how outrageous she is. This is how Austen sees her, imo. I don't think it's Andrew Davies diverging from the 'script'.

I can't quite see that Mrs Bennet has sensitivity and delicate concern for her children. I have always thought the point of her is that she is shallow and thick - and that's an anathema to Austen ... andDarcy, who couldn't admire a woman who doesn't read.

If Alison Steadman hadn't been waving her chicken drumsticks about, boasting with her mouthful and loudly crowing over Bingley's interest in Jane ( and other gents to be vacuumed into her orbit) would the balance of the novel be right - would we have any sympathy for stuck-up Darcy? Teenagers especially tend to view all this Victorian etiquette as horribly snobby. I think Davies did a good thing in fine-tuning the audience response. Casting and balance are his forte, imo.

She's not that thick. She is right in her understanding that only good marriages stand between her daughters and possible poverty. They have no family money to inherit. They will lose their home on their father's death. Mr Bennet never seems to have made proper financial arrangements for the girls and busies himself in his own hobbies. Mrs B herself will be reliant on having a daughter who will offer her and any unmarried sisters a home.

Mr and Mrs Bennet assumed they'd have a son, which would cut off the entail. The novel says they were still trying for one even after Lydia. They were 'unlucky' to get five girls in a row - the odds against that happening must be quite high.

Keira Knightly is always just Keira Knightly. She doesn't become the character at all.

@LApprentiSorcier

Mr and Mrs Bennet assumed they'd have a son, which would cut off the entail. The novel says they were still trying for one even after Lydia. They were 'unlucky' to get five girls in a row - the odds against that happening must be quite high.

He could still have made better provision for the daughters he had. He was relying on having a son who would not mind his widowed mother and single sisters living with him. And on a putative DIL who wouldn't mind, either. That doesn't work well in Sense and Sensibility, where the horrible DIL pretty well throws the Dashwood women out of the house when the father dies and cuts their financial provision.

I should just point out that The Other Bennett Sister (Mary's story) is currently 99p on Kindle

Yabu I was worried about watching the KEira version. However, my good friend who did his PhD on Austen suggested I see it. I love it. I also love the bbc version and watched it when it originally came out. You have to treat each as slightly separate. I think the director of the Keira version got it right. However with both versions I think each got the casting wrong for mr bingley. A disappoint for both. I am happy to hear others comment on this

I need to watch the BBC one again, I can barely remember it.

OP I see you have addressed the issue of mr bingleys’ casting. Exactly. 100% agreed

Austen absolutely doesn't see kindness as a foible. Elizabeth wasn't attracted to Darcy despite him being rich and handsome and considered quite a catch. She falls for him when she sees how kind he is, to his sister, his staff, her aunt and uncle, and of course Lydia. And Austen said her favourite male character was Knightly, because he is such a kind man.

Anne Elliott is kind (visits old friend fallen on very old times when her family are aghast at her 'demeaning' herself like this) and is one of her best-drawn characters.

But she was much older and had been through a dark night of the soul and had got ill by the time she wrote Anne. And her father had died by then and the family had had to move.

The author of Persuasion is someone who is a lot more dependent on kindness than the author of P&P.

Which doesn't mean I think the young JA didn't value kindness.

Mr and Mrs Grant are kind and sensible enough to be liked by Mr D.

Oh and Colonel Brandon Deadringer - his kindness is one of the most important things about him and one of the reasons Marianne chooses him in the end.