Driving 3 miles to beach and fined £200

[nancybotwinbloom]

A friend of a friend drove three miles to her nearest beach and took her newborn for a walk in the pram.

She was surrounded by police and fined £200.

This was today.

I think it must of been scary to be surrounded by police with the pram and the newborn. Surely only one of them needed to speak to her. Not mob handed. Or are they all unreasonable?

Is it unreasonable to drive three miles for a walk? I'm at a point now I can't work out what's local and what's not. I don't think she was in the wrong in all honesty.

Or is it that she drove there that it's not local enough.

I walk nearly three miles to the park with the dog and walk through the park and walk back most days and I don't think I am unreasonable?

What is local classed as these days?

@FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue Yes, that’s entirely possible as no one can speak for all areas.

In my area on Tuesday there were 28 responses officers over two shifts off either with covid or isolating. That’s not including any of the other departments. The rape unit had no staff on at all.

So no, you wouldn’t get even one walking through a park in my area.

Cba anymore.

I wasn't there.

I've said what she said happened.

Didn't mean for this to descend into what would the police do/ what should they do/ what do they do.

I've had good and bad experiences with our local police force. Liverpool.

I don't doubt my friend. I don't know her friend personally.

I feel a bit attacked on this post to be honest. But I'm a bit of a sensitive one.

@BonnieDundee

More likely she was questioned by one or two officers after travelling far further afield than she claims, she gave them lip and they issued her a fine.

If police officer's wife posts that you can get a fine because the police dont like your attitude, this is the most worrying thing I have read since the start of the pandemic

Is that your husband's attitude? And crucially would he treat a 18 stone male body builder the same way?

If you are politely told to move from the area and then persist to argue why you should be allowed to stay then of course you will be issued a fine.

They are given a chance to leave without a £200 fine. Police have better things to do than to be enforcing lockdown laws. My husband’s shifts would be made far easier if people weren’t trying to fight him as he did his job.

Of course it would be, because issuing a fine is the punishment to refuse to adhere to Covid guidelines. If it were an eighteen stone body builder who starting mouthing off, arguing with him and refused to leave the areas then I would say he would consider arresting him for breach of the peach in addition to the £200 fine because said 18 stone body builder would pose quite the threat to one of his 5 foot female colleagues.

What part of that seems unreasonable to you? He has been spat at, fought with, verbally abused, assaulted, harassed and blamed during every level of these lockdowns. If enforcing a fine to someone after giving them the opportunity to avoid paying is the worst thing you’ve read about this pandemic then you really need to get out more. If you think you could do a better job I’m sure he would be grateful of any assistance.

@nancybotwinbloom Did you post just thinking people would agree with how terrible it was?

Of course it was going to spark debate, especially with how unlikely it was. It’s just a lesson that you shouldn’t believe everything you hear.

If it happened in England the fine is not enforceable. The 'local' is only guidance and not the law. 3miles is local but even if she'd driven 300miles there is still no ground for a fine.

For all the posters who say their partners/husbands etc are decent, there are also dickheads focused on numbers and are just dickheads. Like in every role.

You are allowed out to exercise but to travel over 100 miles to do so is not reasonable. As others have said, lockdown regulations state:
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person (in which case you should stay 2m apart). Exercise should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area

The reasonable test applies only to the fact that you’re leaving the house to exercise, the distance travelled to do so is irrelevant, there is no test for reasonableness. The NPCC statement even backs this up. Not only is that the case but it would have to be proven in court beyond all reasonable doubt that you were not traveling to exercise.

@ithinkyouareveryrude He can only issue a fine if an offence has been committed, regardless of how rude the person is being.

And he certainly can’t arrest someone because of his female colleagues are small. If anything men are less likely to hit female officers, in my experience.

You aren’t doing your husband any favours posting like this, trust me.

After what happened to the women in Derbyshire I’d say this was entirely plausible. I’m sure it’s more appealing to the police to target women rather than men.

If you are politely told to move from the area and then persist to argue why you should be allowed to stay then of course you will be issued a fine.

You can be sure as hell I’d argue if I was being told to leave somewhere that legally I had every right to be (& obviously not behaving anti socially or breaking any bylaws)

The police can only enforce the law. They can’t issue fines willy nilly that have no basis in law.

If that’s accurate then that is ridiculous.

People travelling 10+ miles I understand but pulling people up, especially involving that many officers, is unbelievably heavy handed!

@MuthaHubbard

You are allowed out to exercise but to travel over 100 miles to do so is not reasonable. As others have said, lockdown regulations state:
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person (in which case you should stay 2m apart). Exercise should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

You have quoted guidance. This is different from legislation - which is what the police can enforce. See my post above for the actual legislation and the stance the National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) have taken. They are very clear on what the police can and cannot enforce. In particular:

"...the Covid Regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise."

@Anotherducker what happened to the women in Derbyshire?

Ffs

I’m in Wales and people from England are still coming over here to go for walks. They’ve just got crafty about it. Instead of parking in the usual places where the police are more likely to be, they park on the outskirts in little villages and walk over the mountains from there. Usually there’s hardly any cars in a particular spot near where I live and this weekend I counted over 80 when I walked past with the dog (not all of them will be from England of course, there are some naughty “locals, but not locals” about as well).
In Wales you have to start and finish your exercise from your front door.

@nancybotwinbloom

For all the posters who say their partners/husbands etc are decent, there are also dickheads focused on numbers and are just dickheads. Like in every role.

Do please come back and update the thread if it gets reported in a reputable media outlet which doesn’t rely on Mumsnet and Facebook for its stories.

Why are people so disbelieving after what’s been in papers with Derbyshire police fining walkers and calling a Starbucks a “picnic”?

Of course it’s bloody believable. It doesn’t mean the lady involved was impolite or “giving lip” and actually if the police threatened to fine me for something I hadn’t done (break covid restrictions in this case) then I’d probably struggle not to voice my annoyance so id not blame her if she argued with them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they picked her as an easy target after having been sat around for hours to justify themselves hanging round beach car parks.

[quote Nicknacky]@Anotherducker what happened to the women in Derbyshire?[/quote]
Their cars were surrounded by police & they were issued fines for travelling independently in separate cars for a socially distanced walk. (Adhering to the meet one other person for excercise rule. They were told their takeaway cups of coffee (it was a bitter cold day) constituted a picnic.

The fines were redacted as they were found to have been issued illegally.

[quote Nicknacky]@Anotherducker what happened to the women in Derbyshire?[/quote]
This:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55625062

Which prompted the NPCC to clarify the law:

www.derbyshire.police.uk/news/derbyshire/news/news/forcewide/2021/january/force-welcomes-new-guidance-from-npcc-around-about-travelling-during-lockdown/

Ah, yes those women. I read the story at the time.

The 'reasonable test' would be how many other suitable places you've passed on your way to your destination 100 miles away - why did you not stop at any of those to exercise, all of which being more local to where you live. The court can/have made this argument on cases already prosecuted - one of those being someone who attended Cumbria from London to 'go for a walk'

@GorvidAl
If it makes the echo I will but it's not a reputable paper these days.

@Watchitgrow

Why are people so disbelieving after what’s been in papers with Derbyshire police fining walkers and calling a Starbucks a “picnic”?

Of course it’s bloody believable. It doesn’t mean the lady involved was impolite or “giving lip” and actually if the police threatened to fine me for something I hadn’t done (break covid restrictions in this case) then I’d probably struggle not to voice my annoyance so id not blame her if she argued with them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they picked her as an easy target after having been sat around for hours to justify themselves hanging round beach car parks.

Exactly because of the reaction to this incident, which prompted the NPCC to clarify exactly what police can and can't enforce. Any police force still trying to enforce things that simply aren't the law will have a potential PR nightmare on their hands.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55625062

www.derbyshire.police.uk/news/derbyshire/news/news/forcewide/2021/january/force-welcomes-new-guidance-from-npcc-around-about-travelling-during-lockdown/

I'm not sure if it means anything (the rules may differ for the great amongst us) but our PM was driven 7 miles to the place where he cycles... Apparently that was local exercise and not breaking the rules.

Thanks for letting us know OP.

Your friend's friend might be exaggerating about a few things. We'd be hard pushed to find 6 police to surround anyone here. They are a bit understaffed - even for serious crime.

The 'reasonable test' would be how many other suitable places you've passed on your way to your destination 100 miles away - why did you not stop at any of those to exercise, all of which being more local to where you live. The court can/have made this argument on cases already prosecuted - one of those being someone who attended Cumbria from London to 'go for a walk'

That may have been the case for the first lockdown. It certainly isn’t now, the law is very clear, there is no reasonableness test. Are you suggesting the NPCC are lying?