Driving 3 miles to beach and fined £200

[nancybotwinbloom]

A friend of a friend drove three miles to her nearest beach and took her newborn for a walk in the pram.

She was surrounded by police and fined £200.

This was today.

I think it must of been scary to be surrounded by police with the pram and the newborn. Surely only one of them needed to speak to her. Not mob handed. Or are they all unreasonable?

Is it unreasonable to drive three miles for a walk? I'm at a point now I can't work out what's local and what's not. I don't think she was in the wrong in all honesty.

Or is it that she drove there that it's not local enough.

I walk nearly three miles to the park with the dog and walk through the park and walk back most days and I don't think I am unreasonable?

What is local classed as these days?

[Spodge]

By law you are allowed to drive to exercise, and it doesn't have to be local. The police should not be issuing penalty notices unless the law has been broken.

[BackBoiler]

I remember having my newborn in the pram and being at the local shops (it was a rough area) and two mounted police were there on the grass. The man moved himself onto the path to block my way. When I said horses made me feel intimidated he laughed and said that's the point. I told people and I think everyone thought I was overreacting. Anyway after that the said man on horse passed my house as I was sat on the garden and did so occasionally, being really intrusive, until my husband had a weekday off, that was that. Some police can be arseholes like the rest of us, so it could be true. Not convinced about being surrounded though.

[bloodywhitecat]

@JengaJanga

Driving to do the walking shouldnt be allowed imo

And those of us who can't walk safely from our doors should just stay home and not step outside unless we're going to the shop/work/medical appointment? How do I walk the dog? Or maybe Tesco would welcome him with open arms?

[forgetthehousework]

@BonnieDundee

To be fair I can think of many.places.where there is a large wide prom that's nice and flat and would probably describe that as.going for a walk at the beach. I dont know the particular beach OP is referring to so can't comment on it.

Formby beach has fantastic sand dunes; the idea of pushing a pram on it is ... unlikely.
And, regardless of how far one is allowed to travel, it's also at least 10 miles from Liverpool.

[UrAWizHarry]

I can well believe it. Large numbers of police are exactly the type of people who shouldn't be given any kind of power whatsoever.

[IceIceCoffee]

Police shut down a health shop in Liverpool they didn’t believe was essential. Council confirmed it is. Not sure why people can’t believe sometimes they are getting it wrong

[Purpleberet]

The problem with issuing guidance is that there are a lot of people who don't stop to consider that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It is just a sad reality of much of today's society.

[Sunflowergirl1]

@InTheDrunkTank
"I wonder if this is actually true. If it is she can easily have the fine overturned and get a full apology"

For situations such as this example, if true, the simple answer is to decline to accept the fixed penalty ticket. Unfortunately some police officers are forgetting they can only issue a ticket if there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt they have committed the offence, , and crucially the suspect admits such guilt. If not, then they should be reported for summons.

In reality issuing fixed penalty tickets lawfully is very difficult in most circumstances because the regulations start with the premise that "should not leave home without reasonable excuse". The only way to true LT establish that is to interview someone under caution

The CPS implemented a review procedure last year after the last outcry over the enforcement of non existing laws. 95% of all cases reviewed were overturned due to:
No such law in place prohibiting the activity
None or insufficient evidence of the offence being committed
The suspect denied the offence but had been issued with a ticket.

Unfortunately some senior officers are not the sharpest knives in the block and haven't themselves bothered to read the regulations (I have by the way). I live 100m from the county boundary and the neighbouring force are trying to tell people in our village we cannot cross the boundary as it is not local. Orders of the local superintendent who even has the stupidity to repeat it in the local media and was picked up by one of the nationals who had a barrister review his stance....needless to say the Barrister was somewhat withering !

Unfortunately, whilst guidance is helpful, this example demonstrates that you cannot be sure it is right so read the regulations if worried. To be fair, my local council got so sick of what was happening over enforcement they published a clear guide as to what is law (must observe) and guidance (sensible to observe) and I thought that was sensible and useful for people.

Meanwhile I'm waiting to get stopped at the police road checks set up on the county boarder as I visit the shop 1 miles down the road rather than drive 12 miles the other way to stay within the the boarder. I won't be accepting any fixed penalty ticket and will happily have a trip to court......I don't somehow think it will happen though

[Watchitgrow]

For those saying this is unlikely because police have been updated following the Derbyshire incident, here is another example of police going beyond what they are allowed to do under corona legislation:

West Midlands Police: Solihull Covid 'harassment' goes viral www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-55842241

[AdoptedBumpkin]

In many places, three miles wouldn't even take you out of town. Ridiculous.

[CaptainMyCaptain]

3 miles is a short dog walk for me. I could walk to the beach and back if I lived 3 miles away. How would that be any safer than driving there?

[Sunflowergirl1]

A decent bike ride is 20-30 miles!

[Tiktokersmiracle]

For those backing the Police and refusing to believe they bully and target women;
As I said upthread, I now offer help to have fines rescinded in my area. It's the principal for me, I know we are in a pandemic but that's no excuse for targeting people incorrectly.
I've received a message this morning from a lady whose 16 year old went to the shop nearest their house for bread and milk, she hadn't been out the house in weeks. Never been in trouble, not a hoody wearing hooligan.
Anyway, she says on her way back up the street to home from the shop, a police car pulled over and she was told to stop as she was being "detained under a covid law breach investigation" (this does not exist but that's not the first instance where I've heard the local force use that around young women, especially teens).
She stopped and they got out, two large males, one of whom stood in front of her and one behind to "stop her leaving until they were satisfied"- she made no attempt to keep walking or ignore them.
They asked who she was and why she was out, she answered she was getting bread and milk for her mum.
They asked where she lived and she told them the street, but not house number, so they accused her of lying and that she has come from further. She denied this, saying they didn't ask for her full address, so they then said they want ID to prove it or she was getting fined. She said she didn't have ID, she is 16, but she said they could ask the shop keeper who knows her and her mum.
Apparently they said "no, it's up to you to prove us wrong, and we believe you are making up why you are out".
At this point she got upset and cried, pointing out she had the bag with bread and milk in it. They then told her tough, no ID, outdoors for no good or essential reason, told her give us full details or we will "nick you until you can prove otherwise"- at no point did she decline to give her details.
She gave them again and they handed her a fixed penalty notice. When she got even more upset they told her to shut the f up and bring ID next time, and if they see her again they will be taking her to the station. They then asked did she have anything on her she shouldn't and made to grab her arm, at this point a man walking up from the shop argued with them to leave her alone and he had seen her in the shop and knew of her on the estate, and that males are not permitted to conduct a search on a lone female, so they said to her "you got lucky, behave or else" and off they went

At what point is that fair and justified policing? How many fines have to be chucked out due to bullying before this is raised in parliament? They've now put the fear of God into a young girl, who now doesn't want to leave the house for the rest of Lockdown as she is so upset and shaken.

[Sunflowergirl1]

@Tiktokersmiracle

I think the person who has told you that must make a complaint a nd have it investigated. The police do have a very difficult job but unfortunately some officers have behaved in a somewhat rogue manner and need dealing with. For some the attitude had been to issue a fixed penalty when as I pointed out in my previous post It cannot be justified. Unfortunately a few senior officers have gone a little megalomaniac over this (tending to be small county forces it appears) and seem to have a personal pride about stopping people crossing their force boundary. It is extremely unfortunate as it corrodes the normally good police community relations

[Pootle40]

@HitchFlix

Well where I live we're explicitly told to stay within 5km of our home so it's pretty clear? Aren't the rules similar where you are? So if she's outside the allocated distance then The police were just doing their job?

[Iminaglasscaseofemotion]

Absolutely ridiculous. 3 miles is local. I could walk 3 miles and still be in my own town! I wouldn't be doing it with a new born in a pram, I would drive to the place I wanted to go, its not illegal to drive.
Also it should take no more than 2 police officers to have a word with someone, especiallya lone mother with a newborn baby. I mean why exactlydo they think she is going to do? Anything else is just intimidation.
They can't have much to do if they are wandering about in groups and have time for several of them to stand and hand a fine out to one lone mother.

[Bumblebee1980a]

Aww I hope she has reported this. Its hard enough getting out with a newborn baby (to get some well deserved fresh air) without getting stopped and humiliated by the police! This would have really affected me greatly but I struggled a bit at the beginning and how do they know that she isn't too. Mental health is just as important and considering it was only 3 miles (local in my opinion) I don't see the problem. Its not like she was having a BBQ with a crowd of people. Some people just like to abuse their power. Hope your friends ok.

[Sunflowergirl1]

@HitchFlix "Well where I live we're explicitly told to stay within 5km of our home so it's pretty clear?"

Who is telling you that? It isn't the law at all. Even Boris was 7 miles away from Downing Street in his exercise

[Lilo29]

That is beyond crazy, your poor friend. She’s hardly spreading the virus bug travelling 3 miles to the beach.

In the area we live we have been told by the local authorities that we are allowed to drive a certain time distance to exercise so the police wouldn’t have done anything here (15-20 minutes I believe).

We live 5 minutes from the beach. We go all the time.

I have to travel at least 10 miles to get to a supermarket.

[EveryDayIsADuvetDay]

well if it was perfectly legal for Boris Johnson to go seven miles to cycle in Stafford.

[wanderings]

And they tell us the courts are "seriously overcrowded and backlogged". Well, they certainly will be if the police (aided, abetted and almost certainly encouraged by Her Majesty's Government) keep up this shit. Of course, they hope that the plebs will be terrified and pay the fixed penalties. Is this the state that we want to live in? 1984 draws ever closer.

[MarshaBradyo]

6 police surrounding a woman with pram

Did they think she was going to run for it

[MrsKingfisher]

'Surrounded' sounds like a bit of an exaggeration, are people aware how many police officers we actually have?! Not enough to surround a lady and her pram!

[Tiktokersmiracle]

Yes I helped her send an email. I say, I've become an unofficial advocate locally because I offered help to another woman on our local area Facebook. I plan on lobbying my local MP to ask why the police in our area seem to particularly target young females, usually under 25. They need to answer.
I've now advised people, when out, always have their phone in their pocket unlocked so they can record any incidents. I've already helped several to have fines rescinded.
I've nothing against good, respectful, honest policing, but some are using the current climate as an excuse to bully.

[Watchitgrow]

Same police force different beach. On bbc news and not flagged as an incorrect fine!
twitter.com/bigbrotherwatch/status/1359805924618235905?s=12