If you're careful with money and in a long term relationship

[Docugirl]

AIBU to think my DH shouldn't take money off me for his birthday present when he knows I'm broke?

For context, we're together 20 years and he has always been careful with money. Until we had kids I worked full time and we always split everything. We jointly decided that I would stay at home for a few years while the kids were small and I hate to admit it but he hasn't always been forthcoming with money.

For the past few years, I've worked part time, during term time. As soon as I started working again, I took back any costs for myself he had covered, I haven't asked him for a cent for myself, I pay for all the kids clothes, health insurance, all the costs in running my car, have contributed to any big expenses in the house e.g. new boiler. Our DD had some unexpected medical costs this month (200 quid approx), my car tax bill is coming up (roughly the same) I wasn't working over Christmas so I'm flat broke. It's his birthday this month, usually I buy him something but the shops are closed (lockdown) so he's chosen his gift and wants 100 euro from me. I told him I wouldn't have it for a few weeks and mentioned medical costs, he said he can wait...

If you are someone who is careful with money, is this what you would do? You see, I wouldn't take money from him if I knew he was struggling. Btw, he had cards, a cake (which he insists on), breakfast in bed and some small gifts (plant and other little things) a nice lazy day, his birthday is always celebrated. I just know there is no way I would take money off him like that.

He usually gets a decent bonus, which he works hard for and deserves. He doesn't blow it all on himself and does put some of it into the house but out of about 3000 after tax, he might give me 200. Is that a bit mean? We have no debt other than mortgage. He accidentally did 2 transfers to my account after the bonus and I had to give the second one back. I think I would have said keep it. My dsis was surprised when I told her.

There's more examples but the birthday thing has really gotten to me. I am not perfect but I'm generous with money and emotionally. We're together so long, I just don't know what's reasonable any more.

So yes Aibu for being upset about this or no ianbu and I'm right, he's a bit mean?

Are you married? If not, is your name on the mortgage? What about your pension? He's going to get a nice big one, but you've been out if the workforce and now part-time due to childcare.
You need to make sure you and the kids are protected should the relationship ever break down.

Mortgage in both our names, and yes we're married. Oh God I didn't want to raise the pension thing. It's actually kept me awake at night. If I ever bring it up, he literally looks through me. It's occurred to me that I don't want to get old with someone who won't want to share his pension. He hasn't said that, but based on what's gone on up now...

For the first half of our relationship my husband was really careful with his money and I had to learn how to be from him (my parents were, to put it mildly, not that great with money). The big thing that I have learned from him is that being careful with money is not the same thing as being tight. He saw his money as family money very early and would never hesitate to help me if I was stuck. I paid the money back because we both saw it as replenishing our savings, not because he treated me like a debtor. We have more money saved now and it is pretty equally split between us in our names, as are our expenses. Being careful with money means not buying stuff you don't need, saving regularly, investing your money sensibly and choosing the stuff you do need carefully to get the best longevity/benefit you can for what you can afford. It does not mean judging everything in terms of cash brought in and treating the partner who earns less cash and keeps the household going like a second class person.

And I was really shocking with money when we got together to the point where I am not sure that people here would have considered him unreasonable not to share. I didn't buy stupid stuff but I did allow a family member to be first call on my finances and in retrospect he was so patient with me whilst I learned that it shouldn't be that way.

I am careful with money and am the main earner in the family. Until recently DW was a SAHM. She spent whatever she wanted, thought we generally consulted on purchases of more than £200. All money is family money.

I think this would be a fair way to manage finances in this scenario:

1. His earnings go into his account, hers into hers.
2. All joint expenses come from a joint account. Child expenses are joint expenses. A minimal equal amount of spending money (to cover clothes etc) are also joint expenses.
3. Any time either of them is in sole charge of the children, or does any other regular unpaid work that contributes to the family, they extract the number of hours times the minimum wage from the joint account to their own account.
4. The joint account is funded by both in proportion to their earnings. In this context earnings includes both employment income and any payments received under clause 3.
5. People only buy presents if and when they feel like buying, no-one is entitled to presents at all, let alone ones of any particular value.
6. No-one is obliged to stay home with children if they'd be better off working more.
7. Pension savings reduce earnings when made, and increase earnings when extracted. Other personal savings have no effect on the calculation of earnings under clause 4.

Oh God I didn't want to raise the pension thing. It's actually kept me awake at night. If I ever bring it up, he literally looks through me.

A pension should be looked at as his future income. If you're still married when he's retired, you will benefit from his income then, that he uses to support the household.

It's occurred to me that I don't want to get old with someone who won't want to share his pension. He hasn't said that, but based on what's gone on up now...
If you leave, you could be entitled to half the house and half his pension. Sounds like a win win to me. If you stay, you'll be living like this in old age. He won't change.

He's being very selfish with money. He must have loads of savings while you're living paycheck to paycheck.

You should have equal spenders left over each month.

I'm glad you're looking for a FT job. If you're not ready to leave your "D"H then your first priority should be building a pension for yourself, above any household costs, childcare costs etc. He owes you that at least after so many years without one.

I am so sorry to hear you are in this position OP, it really isn’t right. I am the main earner for my household as my DP is still training. We keep a small amount each (£100) for personal stuff - coffees, lunch, books etc - and put the rest of it into a joint account which pays for all joint expenses. This way we pay proportionally but still both have some for ourselves. We don’t have DC yet but absolutely would regard anything for them as joint expenses and should be paid jointly.

Oh God I didn't want to raise the pension thing. It's actually kept me awake at night. If I ever bring it up, he literally looks through me

That's chilling. Like you don't even exist to him. I think he'll get worse in old age. If you haven't left by then he knows you'll be even less likely to. When you're not bringing in any money any more is he going to start rationing your food depending on how much housework you've done?

It's shocking that he won't pay health insurance for you and the children. I hope you're not paying for his insurance, if you are I'd stop.

Don't worry about people on here exploding. Post whatever you want. People aren't angry at you, were angry on your behalf.

I think there are 2 separate things here

I would expect to pay for a present, yes - otherwise I wouldn't feel it had come from me.

However, I do agree that a set-up where one person in a marriage has much less day-to-day than the other is totally unreasonable

Thank you everyone. I have read all the responses.

You see, if I said it's unfair that he always has access to more money than me, he would say then just ask me. He doesn't see how that makes me feel.

I'm not paying for his health insurance, he agreed to contribute something for the kids but never followed through. That's common tbh, he agrees to pay for or towards some things but unless I ask again and , it won't materialise

You would he financially better off if you divorced him. You’d get at least half the assets some of his pension and maintenance for your children.

Is see a solicitor, find out what you’re entitled to and then tell him he properly restructures your finances or it’s divorce time.

You see, if I said it's unfair that he always has access to more money than me, he would say then just ask me. He doesn't see how that makes me feel.

DH and I sort of fell into this arrangement originally when I wasn't working after DD was born. I felt awful asking for money even though he never questioned it at all. A conversation sorted out that we needed a joint account and our fun money transferred to individual accounts (I had mine for DDs child benefit payments and had started spending that instead of asking for family money).

In your situation I would work out how much you've spent on non-docugirl expenses over the last year - all child related, insurances etc. Split it in relation to your earnings so 80:20, 90:10,whatever his:your earnings are then divide his portion by 12. Ask for that each month without fail. Give him 24 hours and ask again.

Meanwhile, look into divorce cos he's a twat.

Omg this is so cruel! I can't imagine choosing my own gift then billing dh for it!

What an absolute prick, sorry op.. It's ridiculous.

Yy the mobile.

He's not careful - he's a tight arse. He's had a cake and presents - but he expects you to go without something for yourself and hand over cash! You should be putting that money aside for the running-away fund you will undoubtedly need sooner rather than later.

PS They're your joint children - not children you decided on having as your personal hobby that you'd fund yourself!

Tell him to return the gift as you cannot afford the 100 quid. Seriously. Maybe he will understand that such a small amount to him is such a huge amount to you.

You have my absolute sympathy and my stbx was exactly the same as this. He earned good money and saved, I went part time for the kids and there was times in our marriage when I could afford a mop (despite us living in a 6 bedroom house). Well now we are getting divorced and this is a massive part of it. It's horrific. He has almost £200k of savings and when I think of the times I've felt sick with worry over money I get so angry. We are living separately now while I try to get blood out of a stone in terms of the divorce. He has completely stopped contributing anything to the children! He even came and took the family tv while our daughter sobbed. his only concern is himself and the things he has paid for.

He sounds financially abusive and actually utterly shite as a life partner. Google financial abuse and I think you'll recognise his pattern of conduct there - possibly more I suspect, if you look up coercive control also.

Almost playing devils advocate here but does he have much spare money after paying all the mortgage, bills and food alone?

I ask because a good friend was in a similar situation to you financially. Her DH had accepted her not working then being part time but wasnt really thrilled about it, it was a sore topic. She felt like you and eventually a row kicked off and he showed her his bank statements and how little spare he had left after paying all the big bills. He genuinely thought (despite her much lower income) that she had more left after the expenses she paid, than he did.

And the kicker is, she did. Only by about £20 a month but still shows the importance of communicating. My friend hadn't realised quite how tight their finances were with her only working 2 days a week.

Your DH sounds an arse. But you sound complicit. Why, when you started working again, why did you cover kids clothes, health insurance, boiler, own car etc? Do you doubt your previous and continuing contributions to the mortgage? Have you kept up with NI contributions and saved any money? I would give him a spreadsheet of all outgoings and income and say you want to discuss it.