DD’s science teacher AIBU

[Adviceneededalways]

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

I think you should be proud of your daughter for standing up for what she believes in. But I guess it the teacher is correct that it is an opinion. Still I do think it's a bit shocking example to use in this day and age and i wouldn't blame your DD for raising it.

I misread "should" as "could". Yes, it is an opinion, an appalling one as others above have said.

DD of OP should complain about the outdated stereotypes

I remember in school being taughtbthe male part of the flower were the Filament and Anther - "FA" so to remember it as boys and Football Association.

And EGBDF for the notes on the treble clef stave that go through the score lines "every good boy deserves football"

I would hope by now these sexist aide memoires would be gone.

This is now reminding me of the 'lighthearted' spat over the song 'Nine Million Bicycles in Beijing' (which was, according to the song, a fact, and a thing you can't deny).
Even a couple of years later the Beijing bicycle quota exceeded those millions by quite some margin, as had other facts and so-called guesses about light years and things that 'No-one (can) ever say it's true'. I think if scientists can expend energy questioning lyrics, your DD's less acceptable example is fair game for challenging.

After an exchange of column inches, Simon Singh rewrote a verse (it was also recorded but I have not heard it). It follows.

The original verse by Katie Melua in the original version of Nine Million Bicycles

We are 12 billion light years from the edge
That’s a guess
No one can ever say it’s true
But I know that I will always be with you.

The new, more scientifically accurate verse by Simon Singh

We are 13.7 billion light years from the edge of the observable universe
That’s a good estimate with well defined error bars
Scientists say it’s true, but acknowledge that it may be refined
And with the available information, I predict that I will always be with you.

@mathanxiety

Posting online to make a point isn't constructive criticism though. *@LolaSmiles* The assumption that the OP posted it online to make a point is an opinion, not a fact.

But that is done through respectful dialogue from all involved, not uploading someone's material to the internet whilst sharing a story that could be easily identifying.
I disagree with that opinion of yours.
I am not sure how what was posted could be easily identifying.
It seemed a bog standard resource to me. It is very possible that the entire incident has had several details changed in the retelling.

The assumption of disrespect on the part of the parent is a bit troubling.

@SmileEachDay
What is unfair, is putting an individual teacher’s lesson resource on AIBU, in the full knowledge that a healthy proportion of people would say “it’s shit” - despite having zero knowledge of the lesson.
'In the full knowledge' is an assumption of malicious intent that has no place in a partnership.

Absolutely, @Wheresmykimchi. Here's food for thought though:
1- Ridicule is in the eyes of the beholder. As noted, school is taking place in students' homes these days, and teachers should be prepared for a massive amount of scrutiny of what they are doing and how they are doing it, certainly a huge amount more than they are used to.
2 - Is the source of the 'wrong thing' you have in mind 'easily identifiable'?
3 - Does holding something up to invite ridicule = constructive criticism?
In this case, the idea that a teacher's resource is being held up for ridicule is an opinion of yours, not a fact.

Fwiw -
It seems to me that the point of the class (whose topic appears to have been an intro to the scientific method) the difference between opinion and verifiable fact, went over the head of the DD. I think the OP missed the point too, on a public forum, as did many posters.

This is getting tedious.

@sunshinemode

You have to look carefully at the language as others have said. Should is an opinion. But I don't think your daughter is over reacting and it's great that she will take the trouble to write to her teacher to argue her point. I hope the teacher will write back to argue her point as this is how we learn in the most positive way of discussion.

You cannot be serious

@KateW73

If the teacher had singled out any other protected characteristic from the Equality Act she'd be getting no end of complaints - it only seems to be girls who are made to feel they are making too much of a fuss if discrimination against them is rubbed in their noses during a science lesson of all places. That the Equality Act applies to everyone in the country is a fact not an opinion, and citizens can't pick and choose whether they agree with the law or not. Good on your daughter for complaining.

In what way was the exercise discrimination?

I haven’t read the whole thread, but you are spectacularly missing the point. It doesn’t matter one jot what you think of the question, OP . Or what the science teacher thinks of the question. Being able to differentiate between fact and opinion is part of the science curriculum. And your daughter needs to learn to do it. Presumably she will be taking science GCSE? Just tell her she has to learn it. She Day its time have to like it, but whether she likes it or not simply doesn’t count for anything, anymore than it would if she said she f dg isn’t like photosynthesis.

In what way was the exercise discrimination?
Anyone exercising common sense knows it wasn't discrimination. Unfortunately some posters don't seem to understand the difference between fact and opinion and seem to think that any belief they hold strongly equals fact.

This thread is a wonderful example of why the original lesson is very much needed.

I was confused at how people accepted the idea that Trump wasn't lying it was 'alternative facts', but this thread highlights that there's a lot of people that don't understand the difference between fact and opinion. And there's also a lot of people who think their opinion on an area they aren't qualified in makes them as knowledgeable as those who are (see so what if the resource was correct the teacher shouldn't have used the example because I think it's a bad example even though this thread shows why it's actually a good example or the scientific consensus may say A about covid, but my crystal light sparkles healer on facebook said that we just need to positively think the negative energy away and masks don't work so actually I'll do what I like)

@Rowenasemolina “I haven’t read the whole thread” so I’m going to fill in the gaps with bits I have made up and hope for the best

“It doesn’t matter one jot what you think of the question, OP”

It was my daughter that had to answer the question.

“ Being able to differentiate between fact and opinion is part of the science curriculum. And your daughter needs to learn to do it. Presumably she will be taking science GCSE? Just tell her she has to learn it.”

She did learn it, I’m her own way and time.

@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson
The page posted by the OP is from a series, with the page posted by the OP, 'Introduction to the Scientific Method' clearly marked 'starter'.

@LolaSmiles
You don't see how outlining a situation that shares:
- a female student
- has had a lesson on this topic
- it's an online lesson
- the student and the teacher clashed over the teacher's resources and the fact the student felt the teacher's correct material was wrong
- that the student was so enraged that she was, according to her own parent, in a foul mood
- and a copy of the resource

could possibly be identifying?

No, I don't.
The class of female students doing online introductory classes on the Scientific Method has to be huge. The number of teachers using this particular resource is very likely large, and the number of female students missing the point is likely to be pretty large too. So also is the number of students nodding off or paying little or no attention. I would hazard a guess (based on my own observation of teens doing online classes) that perhaps half the class noticed the argument.

People lead busy lives. The notions that large numbers of people known to the OP are on MN and recognise her there, or that the OP's community is somehow buzzing with news generated by the OP's DD, or that people are eagerly trying to identify the teacher are just silly.

The class of female students doing online introductory classes on the Scientific Method has to be huge. The number of teachers using this particular resource is very likely large, and the number of female students missing the point is likely to be pretty large too. So also is the number of students nodding off or paying little or no attention. I would hazard a guess (based on my own observation of teens doing online classes) that perhaps half the class noticed the argument.

People lead busy lives. The notions that large numbers of people known to the OP are on MN and recognise her there, or that the OP's community is somehow buzzing with news generated by the OP's DD, or that people are eagerly trying to identify the teacher are just silly
So if half the class noticed the argument and there's parents at home then.

A student not understanding isn't the issue here a student who doesn't understand something in a lesson would be able to ask and have it explained; it happens in every subject, every day up and down the country.

The issue is deciding to upload a resource used in a lesson that it totally correct when it's already been established that the content is correct because someone's child has objected to being told they were wrong.

If I used a worksheet from TES on a Monday and then came on here to read a thread where someone has outlined my lesson topic, what resource I used, the details of a situation that happened in that lesson then it wouldn't be rocket science to work it out.

Unless you actually believe that thousands of students just happen to be studying the same topic, using the same resources and in many of these classes there's a student getting themselves in a foul mood over an entirely correct resource.

Uploading the resource had absolutely nothing to do with resolving this situation and it doesn't help the child concern. All it does is act as a rallying call for people to make digs, which hilariously proves that the topic was needed.

The teacher obviously knew this would be controversial and would help him (I’m assuming it’s a he) waste a big chunk of the lesson. My daughter’s history teacher used provocative images of the witches’ sabbath in the same way and spent a lesson flirting with the boys in class and discussing orgies and anal sex, a more extreme example when you consider some the kids we’re just 12 but with the same aim...the ticking clock...

[quote mathanxiety]@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson
The page posted by the OP is from a series, with the page posted by the OP, 'Introduction to the Scientific Method' clearly marked 'starter'.[/quote]
No, I’m afraid you’ve misinterpreted this. A ‘starter’ is the name commonly given to the first task in a lesson plan, used to settle students as they arrive, recap prior learning or introduce the concepts of the lesson and ideally provoke thought. It’s simply a section of the lesson plan, just as the final task which reviews the learning is often called a ‘plenary’ or a ‘review’. It’s quite possible that this is an off-the-shelf resource but the heading is not in itself evidence of this.

[quote Adviceneededalways]@Rowenasemolina “I haven’t read the whole thread” so I’m going to fill in the gaps with bits I have made up and hope for the best

“It doesn’t matter one jot what you think of the question, OP”

It was my daughter that had to answer the question.

“ Being able to differentiate between fact and opinion is part of the science curriculum. And your daughter needs to learn to do it. Presumably she will be taking science GCSE? Just tell her she has to learn it.”

She did learn it, I’m her own way and time.[/quote]
Sorry, schooling doesn’t work like that. Students don’t get to learn in their own way in their own time. They get to learn the curriculum according to the timetable laid out by the school. If you want to teach her according to a different time table, that’s fine. De register her

Sorry, schooling doesn’t work like that. Students don’t get to learn in their own way in their own time. They get to learn the curriculum according to the timetable laid out by the school
🤣🤣

The teacher obviously knew this would be controversial and would help him (I’m assuming it’s a he)

Congratulations @boqq on one of the most irrelevant posts on an otherwise very interesting thread: quite the demonstration of the dangers of assumptions

OP realised that it would be relevant and confirmed that the teacher was female in her third post, at Thursday 21:51

I think the chances are that the teacher would of course be aware that this question would trip up anyone who had not truly understood the difference between fact and opinion. It would be included as a reliable and repeatable test, in line with the scientific method being taught in the lesson.

The teacher obviously knew this would be controversial and would help him (I’m assuming it’s a he) waste a big chunk of the lesson. My daughter’s history teacher used provocative images of the witches’ sabbath in the same way and spent a lesson flirting with the boys in class and discussing orgies and anal sex, a more extreme example when you consider some the kids we’re just 12 but with the same aim...the ticking clock...

Actually the OP was very reasonable and explained that the teacher was female much earlier in the thread.

The fact you think a factually correct resource about fact and opinion that addresses the lesson objectives is in any way comparable to discussing anal sex and orgies in a history lesson is a little concerning.

Tbh, I'm horrified at the percentage of people who think you're being unreasonable! It's completely sexist. Shows the mindset of many people, men and women, in a patriarchal society, just accepting discrimination as the norm. Therefore perpetuating it. Makes me mad. Good for your daughter. I'm right behind her.

People should really read the thread before writing silly posts.

@Lweji 😆

@Catcoffeecake

Tbh, I'm horrified at the percentage of people who think you're being unreasonable! It's completely sexist. Shows the mindset of many people, men and women, in a patriarchal society, just accepting discrimination as the norm. Therefore perpetuating it. Makes me mad. Good for your daughter. I'm right behind her.

I really wish there was an eye rolling emoticon on MN.

Read the thread. This was a science question, not a social studies one. Nothing to do with women's rights at all. Simply chosen as an emotive subject for the question, to force the pupils to recognise when an emotional response can get in the way of scientific analysis.

If you prefer 'alternative facts' based on strongly felt opinions, you must have enjoyed the Trump years.

Tbh, I'm horrified at the percentage of people who think you're being unreasonable! It's completely sexist. Shows the mindset of many people, men and women, in a patriarchal society, just accepting discrimination as the norm. Therefore perpetuating it. Makes me mad. Good for your daughter. I'm right behind her

It doesn't in the slightest. You, like the DD, didn't understand it, at all. She's 14, what's your excuse?

Tbh, I'm horrified at the percentage of people who think you're being unreasonable! It's completely sexist. Shows the mindset of many people, men and women, in a patriarchal society, just accepting discrimination as the norm. Therefore perpetuating it. Makes me mad. Good for your daughter. I'm right behind her.

FFS even the emotional and strong willed 14 year old was able to reflect and realise she was completely wrong