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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD’s science teacher AIBU

740 replies

Adviceneededalways · 21/01/2021 21:46

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

OP posts:
violetcobra · 23/01/2021 18:03

I believe your DD is wrong, since it is an opinion (albeit the opposite opinion would be morally questionable!).

I do admire your DD's principles, but knowing when to admit a mistake and let something go is a very valuable skill - and perhaps appropriate in this situation.

mathanxiety · 23/01/2021 18:08

The dialogue here is not between parent and teacher, though. The dialogue is between OP and the hundreds of people who have posted, and the thousands more who are just lurking. The teacher has had no opportunity to consent to this.

By your logic it would be acceptable for teachers to post anonymised student essays on AIBU for critique.

Not so - the resource was not the teacher's work. It is perhaps an exercise from a textbook, or it may be available online.

The OP's posts on a public forum included comments that resulted in judgement calls on her own DD from members of the public, despite the alleged ease of identification.
I don't see teachers tutting this even though some of the remarks about the DD have been very harsh.

The OP's posts on a public forum reveal that the OP herself missed the point about the difference between fact and opinion and didn't listen closely to or read closely the actual wording of the question. The thread in all its glory will be accessible for many years.

Mustbe3ormorecharacters · 23/01/2021 18:10

I thought the sun was 92m miles away from the earth?

JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson · 23/01/2021 18:12

Not so - the resource was not the teacher's work.

What an excellent example of an entirely unfounded opinion confidently presented as a fact.

Getskinnyordietrying · 23/01/2021 18:12

FYI - all of the below are jobs never held by a woman in the U.K.

Editor of The Times, The Telegraph or The Daily Mail.
Premier League Football Manager.
Defence Secretary.
Governor of the Bank of England.
Leader of the Labour Party.
Lord Chief Justice.

Should a women be a premiere league football manager? Grin

SmileEachDay · 23/01/2021 18:14

In the full knowledge' is an assumption of malicious intent that has no place in a partnership

Oh come on math - you know as well as I do that you only need to spend 3 seconds on MN to know exactly the the kind of response this post would get. Don’t be disingenuous.

JaimieLeeCurtains · 23/01/2021 18:17

Should a women be a premiere league football manager?

I'm waiting by the phone for the call.

Xerochrysum · 23/01/2021 18:17

Well, the title of the thread is teacher AIBU, so Op's intentions are pretty clear, tbh.

KateW73 · 23/01/2021 18:21

If the teacher had singled out any other protected characteristic from the Equality Act she'd be getting no end of complaints - it only seems to be girls who are made to feel they are making too much of a fuss if discrimination against them is rubbed in their noses during a science lesson of all places. That the Equality Act applies to everyone in the country is a fact not an opinion, and citizens can't pick and choose whether they agree with the law or not. Good on your daughter for complaining.

SuperbGorgonzola · 23/01/2021 18:22

Teacher is right and the fact that she chose such a controversial statement is thought provoking, and therefore a better example than the pineapple on pizza one.

saraclara · 23/01/2021 18:28

@sunshinemode

You have to look carefully at the language as others have said. Should is an opinion. But I don't think your daughter is over reacting and it's great that she will take the trouble to write to her teacher to argue her point. I hope the teacher will write back to argue her point as this is how we learn in the most positive way of discussion.
Because teachers have all the time in the world to write a carefully composed and comprehensively argued letter to a single pupil (out of possibly 200 that they teach in the week) right now. For goodness' sake.

The completed work will be discussed in the next lesson, I imagine, and the DD can make her point in class, or in whatever way the pupils communicate with the teacher in a lesson.

Courgetteandbeans · 23/01/2021 18:30

It is an opinion, no question about that. She may not agree, you may not agree with it and I may not agree with it but some people will. Poor choice by the teacher unless she was aiming to start a debate about it.

SmileEachDay · 23/01/2021 18:32

discrimination against them is rubbed in their noses

I’m not sure I agree that’s what is happening.

There are jobs/roles that exclude by sex. It is a matter of opinion whether or not that’s ok. Personally I think it’s good that certain personal care roles can be exempt from the Equality Act and require a particular sex. I also think some professional sporting roles benefit from being sex exclusive. That’s my opinion.

mathanxiety · 23/01/2021 18:44

@SmileEachDay,
'In full knowledge' is a judgement call.

Tiquismiquis · 23/01/2021 18:45

The OP has has a tough time on here. It’s a fascinating question really and I think it is good to see a teenager engaged tbh. The statement opens all sorts of questions and balance of what evidence might be needed to prove:disprove something as a fact.

SmileEachDay · 23/01/2021 18:48

In full knowledge' is a judgement call

It’s my opinion math. My other opinion is that you know I’m right, but are claiming otherwise 🤷🏻‍♀️

Durtyblurty · 23/01/2021 19:12

Teenagers can be idealistic and reactive (fact or opinion?) but it could help to ask your dd to look at the exercise critically. Put it to her that the example & wording may have been selected deliberately, to invite debate, to test whether the students understand the difference a single word can make - change should to can & see what that does to the statement. Perhaps a more useful exercise in an English lesson, but in science too, it requires critical reasoning.
I don't think there is any call to complain to the teacher. Would it not be more constructive to talk to the teacher about why she found it problematic? It could open up an interesting debate in the class.

lavender222 · 23/01/2021 19:18

Looks like a good activity to me. Seems to have engaged a lot of people in this forum and opened the scientific question of fact/ opinion up for discussion.
Leave the poor old teacher alone. They've got enough in their plate at the moment without ridiculous complaint letters hitting their inbox. Might be a nice touch to write an email thanking her for the lesson instead!

Langpants · 23/01/2021 19:18

@Cabinfever10 Is that a new law? I worked at a nuclear power station a few years back (child bearing age) and took visitors on tours around the reactor. Needed to have radiation scans on my way out...

threatmatrix · 23/01/2021 19:23

My husband works for an oil company. They have started employing woman. The woman know how to do everything but my husband is sick and tired of having to stop what he is doing to assist them as they are not strong enough. They get the same pay and he is doing their job. Can a woman lift a barrel of beer when she works behind a bar? I can’t. House removals? Loads of jobs a woman shouldn’t get a job at. Feminism gone mad.

spidermomma · 23/01/2021 19:27

Let your daughter make her complaint
I'd say it is a fact to and if it's angered her she needs to say her peace I think. The teacher is silly for walking right into that though and not expect a backlash x

KorumamaT · 23/01/2021 20:09

She sounds like a girl that is going to change the world....
good on her. X x

BluebellsGreenbells · 23/01/2021 20:12

You don’t make change with war

LolaSmiles · 23/01/2021 20:33

I disagree with that opinion of yours.
I am not sure how what was posted could be easily identifying.
It seemed a bog standard resource to me. It is very possible that the entire incident has had several details changed in the retelling.

The assumption of disrespect on the part of the parent is a bit troubling

You don't see how outlining a situation that shares:

  • a female student
  • has had a lesson on this topic
  • it's an online lesson
  • the student and the teacher clashed over the teacher's resources and the fact the student felt the teacher's correct material was wrong
  • that the student was so enraged that she was, according to her own parent, in a foul mood
  • and a copy of the resource

could possibly be identifying?

I didn't mention disrespect from a parent either Confused

I question the idea that sharing a teacher's materials online as part of a thread to essentially invite criticism of factually correct materials comes under the perfectly reasonable umbrella of constructive criticism and professional dialogue.

You've said you don't consider sharing the lesson resources unfair and
Either parents are or they are not partners with teachers in the education of their children.

If partners, then constructive criticism on both sides should be part of the process of bringing out the best in the children
I agree with you entirely about being partners and I also agree that constructive criticism in the best interests of the children is appropriate.
I don't think sharing someone's correct materials online in this situation is in any way being done in the best interests of a child.

numberoneson · 23/01/2021 20:37

@SionnachRua

But it is an opinion. The opposite opinion is disgusting of course but that doesn't render this opinion fact. Wasn't a great example but encourage your teen to be pigheaded over something else.

The Earth revolves around the sun - fact. You can't change that.
Donald Trump is a disgrace - opinion. Even if I feel it's absolute fact Grin

Love it.
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