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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD’s science teacher AIBU

740 replies

Adviceneededalways · 21/01/2021 21:46

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

OP posts:
toocold54 · 22/01/2021 22:02

It also takes these kind of shocks to make people understand how it feels for people dealing with racism or women in areas where they can’t get certain jobs etc you will find your daughter or one of her classmates will be inspired by something like this that upsets them and goes on to make big changes In the world.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 22:03

@toocold54

It also takes these kind of shocks to make people understand how it feels for people dealing with racism or women in areas where they can’t get certain jobs etc you will find your daughter or one of her classmates will be inspired by something like this that upsets them and goes on to make big changes In the world.
These kind of shocks.

It was a worksheet.

Original poster
Adviceneededalways · 22/01/2021 22:07

@toocold54 we spoke about this a lot today and how living in place where this feels like quite a dated sexist statement and instantly feels like injustice is a privilege...

It made me think too...

OP posts:
toocold54 · 22/01/2021 22:15

It was a worksheet.

Which shocked/upset OPs DD.
They’re not going to put on graphic videos of women being raped and beaten are they?!

Those who are shocked at these smaller issues will go on to find out more about challenges women face and as they get older they may get involved with more extreme things which will involve watching those kind of videos.

How do you think they teach racism in school?
Do you seriously think they show videos of hangings? Or do they start by saying someone was called a name because they looked a bit different?

toocold54 · 22/01/2021 22:18

we spoke about this a lot today and how living in place where this feels like quite a dated sexist statement and instantly feels like injustice is a privilege...

I do admit I take for granted how lucky I am as a female to live in the UK and be allowed to work, drive, have an opinion etc so those types of questions really bring it home that so many things need to change still.

I’m looking forward to the next generation as they seem so much more for equality and things.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 22:25

@toocold54

It was a worksheet.

Which shocked/upset OPs DD.
They’re not going to put on graphic videos of women being raped and beaten are they?!

Those who are shocked at these smaller issues will go on to find out more about challenges women face and as they get older they may get involved with more extreme things which will involve watching those kind of videos.

How do you think they teach racism in school?
Do you seriously think they show videos of hangings? Or do they start by saying someone was called a name because they looked a bit different?

Shocked and upset Hmm what was she shocked and upset by?!

Well, I work in a school, but I'm not entirely sure what that has to do with anything.

toocold54 · 22/01/2021 22:34

Shocked and upset hmm what was she shocked and upset by?!

Well, I work in a school, but I'm not entirely sure what that has to do with anything.

It doesn’t which is why I didn’t ask if you work in a schools because it’s common sense to know that they don’t show extreme videos like that.

And she was shocked that not all women around the world have the same rights as men - which is pretty shocking to anyone who cares about equal rights.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 22:36

@toocold54

Shocked and upset hmm what was she shocked and upset by?!

Well, I work in a school, but I'm not entirely sure what that has to do with anything.

It doesn’t which is why I didn’t ask if you work in a schools because it’s common sense to know that they don’t show extreme videos like that.

And she was shocked that not all women around the world have the same rights as men - which is pretty shocking to anyone who cares about equal rights.

But that isn't what the exercise taught her, and is a completely separate point.
Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 22:37

@toocold54

Shocked and upset hmm what was she shocked and upset by?!

Well, I work in a school, but I'm not entirely sure what that has to do with anything.

It doesn’t which is why I didn’t ask if you work in a schools because it’s common sense to know that they don’t show extreme videos like that.

And she was shocked that not all women around the world have the same rights as men - which is pretty shocking to anyone who cares about equal rights.

You misunderstand.

I asked what videos of hangings have to do with anything

toocold54 · 22/01/2021 22:43

But that isn't what the exercise taught her, and is a completely separate point.

The exercise was to separate fact from opinion but it struck a nerve with DD. So regardless of whether that’s what the exercise intended it still had an impact.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 22:44

@toocold54

But that isn't what the exercise taught her, and is a completely separate point.

The exercise was to separate fact from opinion but it struck a nerve with DD. So regardless of whether that’s what the exercise intended it still had an impact.

Right.

But the exercise was to teach her that should doesn't mean can.

Shocked and upset is a massive over reaction.

LolaSmiles · 22/01/2021 22:53

I think there is a tendency for people to think that fact is superior to opinion
It isn't a question of superiority.
A fact is a fact.
An opinion is an opinion.
The ability to tell the difference is important.
A strongly held opinion doesn't make something fact.

Though it goes explain some things that have tended to puzzle me about the hold populist political parties can gain over other people
Quite. The idea that someone can be considered electable when repeating the same lies and assertions over and over again has always confused me. Then I read this thread and it became quite clear how many people can't tell the difference between fact and opinion.

Isn't this how we got to the point of 'alternative facts'?

OP
I'm glad there's been a positive outcome with your DD.
If she's switched on and articulate then she could do great things with her qualities. It sounds like this has been a good, and possibly overdue, lesson in not always being right or having to have the last word.

toocold54 · 22/01/2021 23:07

Shocked and upset is a massive over reaction.

But that’s how she felt.
As I said she hasn’t learnt those skills yet which is why they do exercises like that to learn the skills to debate/respect other people’s opinions.

It struck a nerve with her but she has calmed down and seen sense now - instead of seeing this as a negative it can be seen a positive experience and something she can grow from.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 23:09

@toocold54

Shocked and upset is a massive over reaction.

But that’s how she felt.
As I said she hasn’t learnt those skills yet which is why they do exercises like that to learn the skills to debate/respect other people’s opinions.

It struck a nerve with her but she has calmed down and seen sense now - instead of seeing this as a negative it can be seen a positive experience and something she can grow from.

I don't think it's a negative, I just think the stuff about her being shocked and upset so going on to change the world was OTT (and missing the point, as the original exercise was purely to show fact and opinion, not an exercise in women's rights ).
toocold54 · 22/01/2021 23:20

I don't think it's a negative, I just think the stuff about her being shocked and upset so going on to change the world was OTT (and missing the point, as the original exercise was purely to show fact and opinion, not an exercise in women's rights ).

But how do you think people become activists and things?
They see or hear about something that shocks them into wanting to make a change. Sometimes it just starts people on a path to finding out more about it.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 23:20

@toocold54

I don't think it's a negative, I just think the stuff about her being shocked and upset so going on to change the world was OTT (and missing the point, as the original exercise was purely to show fact and opinion, not an exercise in women's rights ).

But how do you think people become activists and things?
They see or hear about something that shocks them into wanting to make a change. Sometimes it just starts people on a path to finding out more about it.

Yes....but all DD has found out is that should means it's an opinion .
toocold54 · 22/01/2021 23:37

Yes....but all DD has found out is that should means it's an opinion

So it’s a positive thing then because she has learnt something.

Wheresmykimchi · 22/01/2021 23:52

@toocold54

Yes....but all DD has found out is that should means it's an opinion

So it’s a positive thing then because she has learnt something.

Yes it's positive. Not something to be shocked and upset and propel her to make change in the world.
JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson · 23/01/2021 00:16

I’m glad she paused to that she was sure before she carried on.

That’s grand. Perhaps next time you might also consider pausing before you carry on and post someone’s resource on a public forum to be critiqued out of context and without their knowledge or consent.

Frodont · 23/01/2021 05:16

@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson

I’m glad she paused to that she was sure before she carried on.

That’s grand. Perhaps next time you might also consider pausing before you carry on and post someone’s resource on a public forum to be critiqued out of context and without their knowledge or consent.

Don't be silly.
Original poster
Adviceneededalways · 23/01/2021 05:49

“If she's switched on and articulate then she could do great things with her qualities. It sounds like this has been a good, and possibly overdue, lesson in not always being right or having to have the last word.”

@LolaSmiles what?!

This is the lesson I’m least bothered about her learning, isn’t it important our children have the ability to politely (and it was politely) say hang on a minute I’m not sure I agree or understand, let me go back and reflect.

I’d much rather at 14 that she had the ability to do this than never react to anything and just blindly copy and write stuff down without ever really thinking about it.

“Yes....but all DD has found out is that should means it's an opinion.”

@Wheresmykimchi False that’s not all she learned from this exercise and if you don’t think school lessons merge and spill into each other you don’t know very much about teaching or children.

@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson

It was a bit of dated text from an old worksheet or book not someone's personal life findings...get real!!!

OP posts:
BoomBoomsCousin · 23/01/2021 06:13

@borntobequiet

It’s a very good example. Part of the remit of education is to make people aware of uncomfortable truths and equip them deal with them. Once your DD gets over her upset - and she’s entitled to her feelings - she will be better prepared to argue her case in other difficult contexts.
It has some merit if they went on to discuss it in depth. If they glossed over it the same way they likely did "Pineapple tastes good on pizza" then it trivializes women's rights and brings to mind the idea that maybe girls shouldn't be doing everything.

Even if they discussed it in depth it still runs the risk of increasing the negative connotations of women and science (amoung other careers). Which, given the difficulty in attracting and retaining female scientists, is not a great idea. There are plenty of other opinions that we take as fact that would not run the risk of disadvantaging half the class.

Backbee · 23/01/2021 06:18

Also odd to why people start a thread in AIBU, and then just keep saying they're right. There should be a 'validate my opinion' section.

Original poster
Adviceneededalways · 23/01/2021 06:28

@Backbee where have I argued I’m right...

I said from my OP that I wasn’t convinced she was right in disagreeing with the statement being fact, I took lots of good advice on ways to discuss this with her and how to help her rethink the question, it was an interesting topic matter to discuss and we both learned...

In the kindest way RTFT

OP posts:
AStudyinPink · 23/01/2021 06:52

The statement isn’t ‘dated’. It isn’t even a real statement of the teacher’s opinion. It’s a hypothetical position statement, one with which many people (here and abroad) disagree. Your daughter is likely to come across people in her lifetime who believe women shouldn’t be in the military, or the clergy, or fly a commercial aircraft. This couldn’t be more relevant, and pretending these things have passed beyond dispute is naive.