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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD’s science teacher AIBU

740 replies

Adviceneededalways · 21/01/2021 21:46

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

OP posts:
MusicMan65 · 22/01/2021 07:02

Well said, exactly right (in my highly subjective OPINION LOL)!

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 22/01/2021 07:02

It's not fact though, is it.
It might be generally accepted in western countries (well some anyway) but in others it isn't.
You can't be a monk if you're female, no matter how much you want to.
In patriarchial countries, you can't do very much as a female, no matter how much you want to - so your DD should take this as a learning point that not everything that is true for her is true for all women and girls.

Teacher is right and your DD should maybe back down on this one.

Although I agree it was a controversial point to include, maybe that is exactly WHY it was included - to push their thinking beyond the simple into the more complex.

Bramblecrumble · 22/01/2021 07:03

Well clearly an opinion. FACT is used very agrssivly in social media these days so it looks here like the meaning has been degraded, so it's important to teach the difference. At least the teacher didn't put people born with a vagina are girls, fact or opinion.Blush

LApprentiSorcier · 22/01/2021 07:03

@nostaples

YABU debating is a good thing in any case

But we're not talking about philosophy here and in this only just post Trump era distinguishing between fact and opinion is actually quite important.

The OP and her child does need to look at the dictionary definitions.

It is GENERALLY accepted that a table has 4 legs and that is a FACT. That there may be tables where a leg has dropped off, does not make it any less than a fact.

The idea that my table is nice is clearly an opinion.

What makes this even more clear is that 100 years ago it was believed that women could NOT do anything they wanted so v clearly it is an opinion.

Whereas 100 years ago and in America as well as China a table has 4 legs.

The table example is terrible

My dining table - a bestseller from a high street store - has just one big leg in the middle.

Three-legged tables are also not uncommon, particularly as a design for small, round tables.

MusicMan65 · 22/01/2021 07:07

Exactly!

My students used to be horrified when I pointed out that the majority of people in the world, numerically speaking, don't live in a democracy with free speech, a free press or what we think of as 'human rights', especially if you are female. Probably only 1 or 2 billion out of 7 billion of us do. Most of us here no doubt wish it were otherwise, but helping kids to come to terms with the reality outside their own thinking bubble is exactly what school is FOR!

Changeismyname · 22/01/2021 07:08

Haven’t rtft but isn’t the teacher perhaps using this as an example of something that should be fact but actually is (unfortunately) opinion?

Showers3 · 22/01/2021 07:09

As a complete aside, my 7 year old child in Y2 was learning about the difference facts and opinion last week - including that facts can be right or wrong and are open to testing. Beyond the wording of the question (which I have sympathy with your daughter over), I’m most surprised that this is even on her syllabus at 14!

LolaSmiles · 22/01/2021 07:10

It's an opinion.

The fact you don't want to tell her that she is wrong because she doesn't like being told she is wrong is quite telling. It might explain why she's come away from a lesson wanting to put a complaint in about a teacher who has done their job correctly.

Amusingly, the fact vs opinion exercise seems rather relevant to her if she can't tell the difference between opinion and fact.

Watwing · 22/01/2021 07:12

The teacher used the word 'should' which is an opinion regardless of which gender was then listed.

LolaSmiles · 22/01/2021 07:13

Showers3
Because the wording matters.

In English we cover facts, opinions and assertions. In PSHE we cover media, social media, fake news, misinformation.

Similes are taught in primary school, but are also on the GCSE syllabus. Topics don't just come up once.

Here we have a 14 year old who would sooner complain to about her teacher than accept that an opinion is an opinion. It's precisely because some people can't tell the difference that teachers will cover these topics.

FatCatThinCat · 22/01/2021 07:14

i think the teacher has played a blinder. She's highlighted that when someone has a very strong, widely supported opinion it's easy to then mistake that opinion for fact.

peak2021 · 22/01/2021 07:18

I hope her teachers are not neglecting her spelling, otherwise that would be foul (not fowl)!!!

Teacher is correct viewing that it is opinion- there are some jobs which should only be for women (grounds of dignity, rape crisis support for example) and a few only for men.

DecemberSun · 22/01/2021 07:18

It's an opinion.

Your daughter sounds very rude. Teach her some manners.

VinceNoirsShinyBoots · 22/01/2021 07:18

Teacher is highlighting that fact and opinion can be nuanced. Also that just because something is an opinion, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily up for debate.

FreekStar · 22/01/2021 07:21

It's not a fact, it's an idealist opinion. The teacher wasn't wrong and shortsighted to use this. Kids need to know that there are barriers in this world, and if it's promoted discussion amongst the children then it's good.

EmmanuelleMakro · 22/01/2021 07:25

Actually it turns out it was quite a good example, because if your DD cannot see that that is an opinion then the lesson (should have been) learned and you should discourage her from making s complete fool pf herself by writing a letter.

By 14 most children will be able to do the easy examples (pineapple) but many still struggle with separating their own opinion from fact. They need to learn that people have different opinions.

FloconDeNeige · 22/01/2021 07:25

Absolutely agree with @FatCatThinCat.

I hope your DD isn’t planning on becoming a scientist OP.

Lottle · 22/01/2021 07:32

I have to teach something similar. I think the worksheet is GOOD. Its a deliberate exercise to make sure the students definitely get it. There's a difference between strongly agreeing with something and it being an opinion.

ZaraTheWonderDog · 22/01/2021 07:32

@FatCatThinCat

i think the teacher has played a blinder. She's highlighted that when someone has a very strong, widely supported opinion it's easy to then mistake that opinion for fact.
Exactly! I don't understand why people are saying it's a badly chosen example - it's an excellent example precisely because it's so emotive and clouds our judgement!

OP your daughter really needs your support in helping her be more objective. My 13 year old is very similar and it's an ongoing protect!

ZaraTheWonderDog · 22/01/2021 07:32

*project

UrsulaVdL · 22/01/2021 07:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChloeCrocodile · 22/01/2021 07:45

Stating the distance of the sun from earth is a fact. A fact can be right or wrong. A fact can be proved or disproved. It's an entirely correct example to use in this class.

People complaining that a science teacher got it wrong are actually wrong themselves

Absolutely this! One of the important points when teaching this is that scientific facts can change when we collect new data.

And I love the opinion example too. It has really highlighted that some students (like the OP’s DD) are unable to distinguish between the facts and their own strongly-held opinions, and if I were the teacher I’d devote a bit more lesson time to going over it.

wildraisins · 22/01/2021 07:52

It's an extremely poor choice of example.

Outdated for one thing! Why is it even on there?

The teacher deserves any flack they get from your daughter over this IMO!

wildraisins · 22/01/2021 07:55

Tbh in your shoes OP, I wouldn't care whether or not it was fact or opinion or what anyone thought about that.

The much bigger issue here is them perpetuating outdated ideas on their worksheets.

By even mentioning the statement "girls should be able to do anything they choose!" you imply that there is an argument that they can't, or even that the default position is that they can't.

Sod whatever the actual answer was or should have been. Get into the school and complain.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 22/01/2021 07:57

Surely the discussion about how the statement is an opinion is far more valuable than ignoring the issue. You can then discuss how the opinion is outdated but it is still an opinion.
I don't understand the frothing about this. Its like you all want to be spoon-fed woke opinions only.