DD’s science teacher AIBU

[Adviceneededalways]

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen and has become very sensitive to even a sniff of inequality. I think it’s quite cool that she has strong beliefs but do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..

She came down from Google classroom tonight on a fowl mood and announced that she was drafting a complaint letter to her science teacher due to an argument they had over an exercise in class...

The exercise was dividing statements into fact and opinion, ie FACT on average the sun is 150 million miles from the sun. OPINION pineapple taste good on pizza...

The final one was girls should be able to work in any area they choose which I’m sure you have guess the teacher was adamant was opinion and if had been marked down on the sheet as such...

I personally think this is less about being opinion or fact statement and more to do with it being a poor choice of example in a class of predominantly strong minded young girls but DD is very upset and angry at her teacher.

Is she being a bit immature and dramatic or does she have a point...

I’ll include the work sheet in next post.

In the context of science I think it’s quite a good example of something that may be taken as fact but isn’t. I also think it’s quite good that she’s been provoked by it; suggests she’s a thinking and opinionated person. If she’s going to contact the teacher she does need to think her message through carefully, but perhaps the teacher will be happy to engage with her on it.

@Theunamedcat

Its not really a good statement to be making though is it personally I would tell her its a grown up issue and write an email to the school myself about how it is a poor example in my personal view and I would suggest a rethink before using that resource again

She's 14, not 4. 'A grown up issue' Did you forget to get off the train in 1970?

I'm guessing that the teacher uses that example every year and it leads to a great discussion and really engaged kids. In a normal classroom, the teacher can guide the chat and address misconceptions. By the end of the lesson, kids have had fun, and now have a better understanding of difference between fact and opnion.

Trying to do this online clearly hasn't worked. The lack of teacher-steered discussion has taken away all the fun and the impact. OPs dd simply didn't understand the learning and came away frustrated and angry.

Teachers are working hard to adapt planning to remote learning but it doesn't always work. Teachers and kids are finding this all the time- teacher works hard to adapt planning, kids work really hard from home but still its really difficult to make sure everyone makes the progress each lesson that you would hope for.

In your first post you seemed to agree with your daughter, but then a few posts in and you have understood it and changed your mind. That's an amazing quality - being able to change your mind in light of new information: smart, humble and flexible. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want your daughter to grow up with the same qualities? Do her a favour a tell her she's wrong - anything else is a a disservice to her.

Good for the teacher. Girls are told the battle is over and they can do anything they want.

Legally in the UK that is true but there are communities in the UK who either do not allow girls to work or limit the work they can do.

When I was in my teens a local college set up a teacher training scheme, linked to a not quite so local uni. The parents of one community had no problem with their daughters being teachers, but they would not allow them to go to uni and move away from home.

In many parts of the world a girl's future is set the moment she is born.

@NativityDreaming

I would advise your daughter to change the example, and ask if it would be acceptable to write “(X nationality) should be able to work in any area they chose”, if not, why not.

I don’t think either example is acceptable for the school to use.

But that would still be an opinion! Ask a Black person if a White woman should be a mentor for Black youth and they’ll laugh you out of town

Jees ! Do you think the teacher has got the time at the moment to answer these petty complaints? My DD 15 always has an opinion. It's what teens do but if she starts moaning about her lessons I tell her to suck it up and get on with it!

@Bringonspring

Ps the sperm sonar is a stupid one, this is about being bared from a job even when you have the physical characteristics to do it

There are jobs that are segregated by sex though. And no, you’re adding more information to the sentence, which changes the meaning. The point was to look at which statements were facts vs opinions. As it stands, its an opinion.

@VeniVidiWeeWee

"It's a BRILLIANT lesson and I think the teacher should be nominated for teacher of the year."

So, nobody has actually looked at the worksheet. This presents as FACT that the Sun averages 150 million miles from earth. How does a science teacher not know that it is approximately 93 million miles.

A very, very poor effort

And how do you know if the teacher purposely used this resource to point out more than one thing? The sentence about girls and work has been presented as an opinion, the sentence about the Sun as a fact. As a scientist it’s important to facts check everything. How many students actually failed to point out the inaccuracy of it and therefore accepted it as a fact?

@TaraR2020

It's a fact, because 1) It's law and 2) scientifically speaking there's no reason as to why not

An opinion would be that they can't do so in spite of these reasons.

If he's bright enough to teach teenagers, he's bright enough to know what the reaction will be. Seems deliberately inflammatory to me and I'd let your dd complain.

There are sex based exemptions in LAW! So its NOT a fact. www.xperthr.co.uk/faq/are-there-any-circumstances-in-which-an-employer-can-specify-for-example-the-required-race-gender-sexual-orientation-or-age-of-job-applicants/19538/

And HE is a SHE. It isn’t a fact that all science teachers are male.

@ chillied. Interesting point but doesn’t the phrase work equally as well for boys given that in recent years, men have taken on a lot of roles traditionally filled by women ? Nursing and care services for example. Some men also choose to be the home maker - although I suppose in many cases this is dictated by job availability. Interesting thread though.

You aren’t doing your dd any favours. This is not about invalidating her, it’s about forming her. It is inappropriate to write a letter of complaint to the teacher. It is ok to be incensed in the moment. But her energy would be far better spent to research the area and understand why she is mistaken. Knowledge brings both power and humility.

Stating the distance of the sun from earth is a fact. A fact can be right or wrong. A fact can be proved or disproved. It's an entirely correct example to use in this class.

People complaining that a science teacher got it wrong are actually wrong themselves

I wonder if the teacher chose something that she knew would be inflammatory as it would mean the students would remember it and it would make for interesting discussion. If she had chosen something that wasn’t controversial then it might not have caused a debate and would have been quickly forgotten.

Maybe have a chat to your daughter about the fact that we are lucky to live in a society where it feels more like fact, but that in many cultures around the world people do actually hold this OPINION. If you considered that in some cultures people might consider it FACT that women are not capable of some jobs, suddenly it becomes more attractive to consider that it is actually an opinion, IYSWIM.

If the question was exactly as stated - girls should be able to work in any area they choose - then that is an opinion. The giveaway is 'should be'.

However, the opinion is moot as the law prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex apart from a very small number of exceptions which prove the rule.

It's an example based on an outdated assumption, and as such needs to be challenged, because it implies that there is no legal prohibition on discrimination.

I would let your DD go ahead with the complaint based on the outdated assumption behind the opinion.

She could give examples of similarly outdated assumptions that would be equally appalling, based on race or ethnic origin, or turn it around and offer an example featuring men and whether they can cook, look after babies, hoover, do laundry, etc.

Haha or should I say *opinion that we are lucky to live in a society......

Dd14 is quite an opinionated teen
do sometimes have to tell her her to rein it in a bit..
I won’t be telling my daughters she’s wrong
doesn’t like being told she’s wrong

If thats how you describe her as her mum should imagination she a nightmare to a stranger .

What's wrong with a teen who holds strong opinions?

Nobody likes to be told flat out that they're wrong.

It's better to engage in civil debate. Ask for evidence behind her opinion, offer evidence for yours. That way you help her to become a better debater.

Yes, girls can debate too.

Also just thinking aloud. It might be that the teacher realised that this is the only example that sounded like fact but was actually opinion, therefore meaning that they really had to think about why it was an opinion not fact, and so creating more depth of understanding. It’s not too easy a question, which means they had to demonstrate that they really understood the difference between fact and opinion.

I’m Sure the teacher is now sitting at home and thinking “yes whoops that was a mistake”. I really don’t think this warrants a complaint letter, especially not now. That could be a major major headache for a lot of people - SM and the teacher.

Great discussion though, I would put it into opinion though I want it to be fact - it’s a whole Wnglish lesson debate, both sides of it, especially when you consider the roles and views of women across the world.

I think this may be a time to reign her in a bit - I don’t think there’s harm in your DD pressing this in a different way once schools are back - this debate could lead to some positive things, but right now and in this context? No no no, I’m pretty sure the teacher has learnt their lesson

From the Study Skills website:
A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. An opinion is an expression of a person's feelings that cannot be proven. Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

Wnglish?! Obviously I mean English.

Your DD could take her passions far, she could use this to form a debate club.

The fact your daughter came away still thinking about the lesson means the teacher has done her job 😂

Any sentence including the word "should", which is a theoretical concept, is an opinion. The question of whether an opinion would be shared by the vast majority of civilised people is a different question.

I don't see how it will be possible in future to teach critical thinking skills if teachers allow themselves to be intimidated by students or parents. If we do allow this then welcome to the death of real independent thought!

In other news, I always made it clear to students that they should not be able to tell what my opinions were at the end of a discussion because my opinion wasn't relevant, and that therefore if I interrogated a particular point of view or posited the opposite case it was as a neutral observer &/or 'devils advocate'. Until recently this is what the BBC did, though sadly these days not so much.

Bullet points cos I'm not well.
The statement is written as an opinion not fact.
The teacher is correct and has done nothing wrong.
14 year olds however driven or concerned about injustice, or well-meaning, really need to be able to cope with being told they're wrong. She, like everyone else, is going to get something wrong again in her life, and you do her no favours by not protecting her from that reality and learning how to deal with it.
Letting/encouraging her to pursue a complaint would just be setting her up to fail, to be wrong again and I don't see how that's helping her