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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Working class wannabes in the News

397 replies

Oileo · 21/01/2021 08:43

It’s been reported in a few papers that ‘47 per cent of those in middle-class professional and managerial occupations identify as working class’ and 24 per cent of people doing middle-class jobs whose parents also did middle class jobs identified as working class too. The gist is that it’s now cool to pretend you rose to your position/ wealth on merit- rather than pretend to be posh.

It got me wondering (again!) about the class system. When do you change class?Can you easily in a generation? I had a middle-class job, yet I don’t know how I’d reply in that survey. I still personally feel a gulf between those who grew up wealth and a middle class background. Even in my 40s I have a bigger mortgage (no inheritance), my interests often don’t match (can’t play an instrument, I don’t know many ballets or plays in conversation for example, no ‘hobbies’ or skills outside education). I feel sometimes it’s obvious networking at work or in my dress (I wear hoop earrings, a number of colleagues over the years have made snide comments as a small example, but it’s more than that in presentation of yourself).

Part the reason for my fascination with class is that I don’t really fit as an immigrant. My parents were a cleaner and a security guard, but I/ they had access to a good education and the Soviet Union was a system that simply can’t be applied here. I have certainly earned here on merit money wise, but have also had better educational opportunities that many British working class. So I don’t really fit.

So
Yabu- your job defines your class
Yanbu-class is far more complex, and somebody may identify as working class if those are their roots.

OP posts:
MissMarks · 22/01/2021 22:02

Derxa- I move in fairly middle class circles- including having kids at private schools and foot ball just isn’t something my traditional middle class friends are in to. Certainly not it Scotland or Northern Ireland. In fact because of the sectarianism in much of it in both countries it would be actively avoided. Maybe different in England but that hasn’t been my experience.

PegasusReturns · 22/01/2021 22:11

@justanotherneighinparadise

Can’t you be a working class person living a middle class lifestyle

I guess it depends to the extent which class is self identification versus something that is attributed to oneself.

derxa · 22/01/2021 22:14

@MissMarks

Derxa- I move in fairly middle class circles- including having kids at private schools and foot ball just isn’t something my traditional middle class friends are in to. Certainly not it Scotland or Northern Ireland. In fact because of the sectarianism in much of it in both countries it would be actively avoided. Maybe different in England but that hasn’t been my experience.
How hilarious. My DSs went to private school over a decade ago. My DS2's best friend from school's father is a Gooner. He worked in the City. He .pays a fortune for his season ticket
MissMarks · 23/01/2021 00:33

Might be the case in England but certainly not in NI and when I lived in Scotland the dads were all in to rugby!

FunkBus · 23/01/2021 05:12

"So I don't really know what class I came from, as it's a weird mish mash."

It's really not. Your parents went to university, you're middle class (unless they ended up in non-professional jobs or some other awful calamity.)

MrsKoala · 23/01/2021 07:32

Your parents went to university, you're middle class (unless they ended up in non-professional jobs or some other awful calamity.)

What do you mean by professional job? I’d say I never had a professional job and I went to uni. Loads of people I know who went to uni end up in fairly low paid admin type jobs which have nothing to do with their degree. One of my friends went to uni and was a bin man, another one became a nanny.

FunkBus · 23/01/2021 07:37

@MrsKoala I was being facetious

Andante57 · 23/01/2021 08:16

The only real answer to scrapping the class system in this country is to abolish the royal family, the house of lords, the private education system and equalise society with more taxes. It is really as simple as that

Feelingquitehopeful do you really think that would scrap the class system?
It might change it but there would just be a different gang in charge.
North Korea is supposedly communist but there’s still an elite as there is in Venezuela and other so called Socialist countries.

Andante57 · 23/01/2021 08:32

@unmarkedbythat

inverse snobbery is definitely a thing. It annoys me as much as regular snobbery (which I don’t think you see much of these days. Or at least I hope not).

1.There is an important difference between punching down and punching up.

  1. You see plenty of snobbery on MN every single day.
Your first point about punching up/down:

So do you think it’s acceptable to sneer at someone for being posh because that’s ‘punching up’?
Or for children to have a go at some unfortunate posh child is fine because that’s ‘punching’ up.
Having free rein to insult someone on those grounds while they can’t fight back because it’s ‘punching down’ sounds unpleasant and cowardly.

PegasusReturns · 23/01/2021 09:32

@Funkbus

It's really not. Your parents went to university, you're middle class

So is the opposite true? Because I really don’t think it is.

Again using the example of my DH, I think people would be outraged if he described himself as WC, although I have to say it has never come up as a point of discussion in RL.

CoronaIsWatching · 23/01/2021 09:36

Class has absolutely nothing to do with income lol

MissMarks · 23/01/2021 09:39

If your parents didn’t go to university (generally- obviously doesn’t apply to the upper classes) you are born working class.

PegasusReturns · 23/01/2021 09:53

@MissMarks and if you’re born WC can you become something else?

@CoronaIsWatching not on its own but it’s a marker and allows the purchase of/participation in a number of other markers.

FunkBus · 23/01/2021 09:56

"So is the opposite true? Because I really don’t think it is."

No and I didn't say it was so your husband can rest.

FunkBus · 23/01/2021 09:57

"So do you think it’s acceptable to sneer at someone for being posh because that’s ‘punching up’?"

I mean, I just can't get excited by it. Benedict Cumberbatch moaning that people call him posh...who cares?

MissMarks · 23/01/2021 10:01

Pegasus you will always have working class roots and traits that differentiate you! What is that quote- show me a child at seven and I will show you the man?

user1471565182 · 23/01/2021 10:02

Yeah well Arsenal are all proper middle class with a stadium like a mortuary on matchdays. Have a gander at their season ticket prices.

PegasusReturns · 23/01/2021 10:10

Pegasus you will always have working class roots and traits that differentiate you! What is that quote- show me a child at seven and I will show you the man?

But like what?! The very fact that no one can define what is/isn’t MC shows what bullshit it all is.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 23/01/2021 10:13

@MissMarks

If your parents didn’t go to university (generally- obviously doesn’t apply to the upper classes) you are born working class.
I think that’s interesting

I don’t think my children are working class

I don’t think anyone would think that if they met them

But i do think that because lots of people dont know or care about class and because middle class seems to be prevalent that there are many ways of deciding class. Its not black and white

Which is why I’m interested in it as a discussion

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 23/01/2021 10:14

The very fact that no one can define what is/isn’t MC shows what bullshit it all is

Or this

This would have been shorter

PegasusReturns · 23/01/2021 10:15

@FunkBus

No and I didn't say it was so your husband can rest

No need to be snipey it was a genuine question as part of a discussion Hmm. So why does university as a maker of class only work one way?

DH couldn’t care less how people view him - he is what he is - but the fact is no one would view him as WC and if he claimed to be WC people, especially MNers would tell him he’s wrong Confused

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 23/01/2021 10:17

Dd wants to be an actor

I don’t particularly want any threads on mumsnet when shes famous (😀) saying shes a working class wanna be

MissMarks · 23/01/2021 10:22

Pegasus I work with truly working class people (in community field) and their lives are completely different to my my middle class friends in so many ways.

  1. accents and grammar and spelling
  2. the food they eat
  3. where they live
  4. where their children go to school
  5. children’s hobbies
  6. children’s names 7)jobs their partners do
  7. whether they are married
  8. how many children they have
  9. where they go on holiday
  10. where they socialise and how they socialise
  11. sense of humour
  12. attitude to Christmas
  13. how they dress themselves and their children
  14. what they generally watch on TV Probably loads more but these are off the top of my head.
ChristmasSexyTime · 23/01/2021 10:28

It's interesting because I remember that about ten years ago, the BBC reporting that the working classes were shrinking and the middle classes were growing.

PegasusReturns · 23/01/2021 10:34

@MissMarks

And all of those, except perhaps the nebulous “attitude to Christmas” and “sense of humour” can be changed with relative ease, yet somehow we claim class, especially, working class is fixed, not even by our birth but that of our parents.

That is what I find so curious.

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