Do you think giving birth in Belfast will become a thing post Brexit?

[Lalaloveyou2020]

Since 2005 a person born on the island of Ireland (including NI) to Irish or British parents has a right to apply for Irish citizenship/a passport. I read an article in the FT yesterday discussing the obstacles UK business travellers would face in a post Brexit word, which ended with this:

"There’s one group that will do well out of this: UK-based EU passport holders, who will be able to advertise themselves, both to British employers and to EU service buyers, as being able to travel unhindered around the bloc. Best-placed of all will be Irish passport holders, who can not only travel in the EU, but live and work freely in the UK too. Cecil Rhodes, the British mining magnate and colonialist, once described being English as “the greatest prize in the lottery of life”. Post-Brexit, it’s the Irish who hold the winning ticket."

If you really really wanted your child to have access to the EU in the future, would you be willing to move to Belfast for your birth so that your child could then claim an Irish Passport?

This is meant as a light-hearted discussion more than anything else, though if anyone from NI could chime in on how difficult it would actually be to do, please do so! Reason for going to Northern Ireland over the Republic is the access to the NHS and an automatic right to be both Irish and British at birth.

I don't know any prods who keep the toaster in the cupboard. Maybe it's only in certain areas?

Mistlewoeandwhine the little boy you refer to was in my class. I still remember it vividly and the trauma years later when the prep was being demolished and what would happen to the tree. My own children now attend and many years later when we went to look round I had a weird obsession with finding the now moved and big tree. People really have no idea of what actually happened a short journey away.

My DH and DC have win the lottery then! I have not. I did look into whether I could get an Irish passport but I'd have to live in the Island of Ireland for a year to qualify, I think. Still, pleased for our kids that they'll have access to free movement in the EU when they're older.

This thread sums up NI so well - shocking arrogance and ignorance by Brits and the horrors of the Troubles side by side with some excellent humour.

Going to gloss over the hideously tone deaf comments on this thread (complaining about a Derry child’s rights, really?!) and say that as a NI Catholic I’m really struggling on the tray bake test front - 15s, those mint choc ones, do caramel squares count? My mum made one that was a bit like rocky road but with raisins. Clearly a traitor.

Until the Derry Girls episode hadn’t realised the toaster cupboard was a thing but my prod friends confirmed it’s true.

I know someone who has their microwave in a cupboard permanently

I also have my microwave in a cupboard

To be honest, I find myself eyeing up the kettle sometimes as well and thinking 'hmmm, I wonder...'

On a non toaster but very Irish note, this painting is called The Fear. And I absolutely love it.

I saw that picture yesterday and sent it to my dad

The toaster must be a Derry thing. I'd say my knowledge of Prod vs Catholic houses is probably spot on 50/50 and never once have I met anyone who kept a toaster in a cupboard. When that came on Derry girls, everyone I knew was laughing about all the other comparisons but were???? about the toaster

@FolkSongSweet hello, fancy seeing you here so far away from the toddler thread.

I can confirm those are all acceptable traybakes, and it sounds very like your mum was making tiffin - now that really is fishing in dodgy waters

Ha @ReallySpicyCurry your posts really amused me while doing the night feeds! sadly (or not, now you can no longer get anything delivered...) I don’t live there anymore. Pretty sure it was tiffin now you mention it but that only takes it to 4. I need another traybake to pass the test!

@wellthatsunusual

On a non toaster but very Irish note, this painting is called The Fear. And I absolutely love it.

Can’t zoom in properly but is that....the immersion on?!?! 🤣

whispers mars bar squares. Or biscuit fudge. Or lemon slices. Don't let on I told you

It is the immersion on! An actual oil painting depicting this dire event

Oh that artwork of the immersion gives me the shudders. I remember as a teen asking my mum permission to turn the immersion on to get a shower, if I dared to leave it on longer than 20 minutes I would’ve gotten a bollocking! The first thing I did when I bought my own house is switch it to gas, no more fear triggering memories.

I'm surprised there is no private maternity hospitals in NI.
I had DD in Belfast we had the option of a private room after birth I think it was £20 a night we didn't book it.
Most people who go private in the Republic do so for the benefit of a private room.
My only dislike on NI maternity hospital is it is midwifery care throughout.
In Dublin non private I saw a consultant on every visit.
Mistakes were made on DD's birth plan I was on a cross-community plan, I'd never go midwifery again.

I am buying The Fear for my Da. That's brilliant. His favourite phrase "Do ye think I have shares in NIE"

@Emeraldshamrock

I'm surprised there is no private maternity hospitals in NI. I had DD in Belfast we had the option of a private room after birth I think it was £20 a night we didn't book it. Most people who go private in the Republic do so for the benefit of a private room. My only dislike on NI maternity hospital is it is midwifery care throughout. In Dublin non private I saw a consultant on every visit. Mistakes were made on DD's birth plan I was on a cross-community plan, I'd never go midwifery again.

On the paying for a private room thing, it was something like £120 a night when I had my children. But it was a gamble because the side rooms obviously went to those with clinical need so it was very rare for one to be available anyway, and I'm not sure if there was a refund if you didn't get one. Although maybe there was?

I saw a consultant throughout both my pregnancies due to being higher risk. It was rather ironic that a rather snobby relative who was pregnant at the same time as me paid to go private thinking she would get a private room and all sorts of special treatment etc but actually the only thing she got was the opportunity to have her antenatal appointments outside of standard clinic hours, so she didn't have to tell her employer she was pregnant until much later. Due to her age, she would have had consultant led care on the NHS as well, so she saw the same consultant as me, had fewer appointments with him and paid a fortune for the privilege. It's a strange set up to be honest.

The other day my teenage daughter came downstairs in a flap saying 'mum, there's a weird gurgling hissing noise coming from the hotpress...it's freaking me out'. I had left the immersion on and the water was so hot that the tank was ready to lift off with the pressure

Maybe it was £120 the fact the room wasn't guaranteed put us off. My Dsis went semi private to have a smaller room of 4 she paid €1000's for her care, we were both pregnant ATT we had the same consultant lead team she wasn't happy.

I was always a bit about a private room, because when I had big DD, 13 years ago, I was on a lovely bay with three other women. Visiting times were restricted and closely monitored. It wasn't perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, but it was reasonably calm and I was happy enough. I had some lovely chats with the other mums, and we watched each other's babies while we showered. I was there for five days. It was a nice little bubble.

With DD2, who is two...... Oh my word. Different ward. The bay was a lot smaller. It was as hot as hell. There was an attractive view of pipes. I can't remember how many women were on the ward, but it seemed bunged. The partners were allowed to be there all day, which I know some people prefer, and I do see why, but you were always tripping over the buggers en route to the loo, which was miles away, past all these bloody men. I only got talking to one other mum,briefly. At one point I was sitting there with my legs akimbo and a catheter in, and this fella came wandering past and stopped for a good old stare.

Second night I got a private room. Utter, utter bliss, apart from the Bounty woman pushing her way in. God, the difference was unbelievable. I have totally revised my opinion of private rooms. I'd no idea how bad the postnatal wards had become in the last decade.

This thread is saddening and humorous in equal measure.

It saddens me that so many Irish MMetters have such poor views of the English and I would like to say that not all of us are so ignorant. This is not to dismiss your experiences at all but I think some of the most inflammatory comments on this thread are trolls (did anyone see that Social networking documentary on Netflix about the impact of social media in creating social divisions and stirring up confrontation - I was sceptical at first but I am now beginning to wonder).

I have been pondering about applying for an Irish passport since the Brexshit show happened but am still unsure about doing so because my DH and DC wouldn't be entitled. I'm not convinced that birth tourism will happen but it did in the 1930s when my wonderful dear departed Grandmother fled from ROI to London as an unmarried pregnant woman who was about to be incarcerated for her "sins". Just as well she did or I wouldn't be here. My Grandfather (who was English BTW) married her and she had a long and happy life (although never returned to her homeland through choice). Not sure it's relevant to the thread or not but just offering a different perspective I guess. Reading about all those poor mothers and children who suffered at the hands of the Catholic church has brought up to me what might have become of her. However I don't judge all Irish people as responsible for that and would hope that you would not judge all English people by the truly heinous crimes carried out in their name.

I think you are correct in that many English people are poorly informed about the complexities of Anglo Irish history but how to go about addressing that is beyond me. My DC dropped History at school (much to my chagrin) and although I do my best to educate them I can see their eyes beginning to glaze over when I get on my high horse!

Derry Girls is a big family favourite in our house but I can't ruin that by making it "educational" or they'd never speak to me again . I went out with a lovely lad from Derry (had some of the best sex ever with that chap - now reminiscing about that is definitely a good way to spend a wet Wednesday.... Aah - whoever married him is a very lucky woman

I really hope that we can try to educate ourselves and our young people so that although we are divided geographically and politically we can still endeavour to understand each other and move forward.

Oh, and btw the Immersion was definitely a thing in our house in the 70s too (not sure if this was a result of Irish granny or that the English and Irish have more in common than we like to think

You make me sick

Sorry that me pointing out that someone elses post was simplistic makes you sick, and that you feel the need to make that personal to me. Suggests serious issues on your part. Do you hate the Irish as well as the Brits? Can't be me personally as I didn't even give an opinion.

Plus once the political furore calms down and we start getting decent trade deals I imagine British citizens might get better free trade (and movement) deals with high growth countries like the USA / India and SE Asian countries than European countries would as smaller populations tend to get access to special visas that larger populations don’t.

That's not happening. Not now. Not in 5 years time. Not ever.

And "specialist visas" are the opposite of free movement.

Glad to have sorted that out.

@Yuddiesorno It can come across as tarring everyone with the same brush.
That is unfair as an English person. I've had many good experiences with English people I've aunts who left in the 50's cousins from the UK.
The thing with these threads NI/Rep and I'll be bashed here is the anti English sentiment the experience of the people English/Irish living in NI. The loyalists are very English and the Republicans are very Irish.
It reminds me of Ireland years ago the culture, traditions.
MIL has many stories the one when they left newlodge in the night with nothing a young soldier got them a safe place to sleep, he arrived the following day with food, blankets, pots and a kettle.
It was a war.
You're right about the Catholic shame of the mother and baby homes you don't blame individuals.
Personally it shames me to be Irish and I hope we continue to learn and change as a nation.

Ah Yuddiesorno I'm so glad your GM got away it's utterly heartbreaking.

You make a good point, there are women outside Ireland who were driven there. Though I think that's a completely different situation from birth tourism and a passport
for their children or grandchildren is the least they're due.

For their children or grandchildren is the least they're due Exactly.

@FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack - yes I know it's a very different situation. I was just trying to diffuse some of the Anti English Anti Irish rhetoric because it makes me sad and pessimistic for the future and I think as is often the case pitting the masses against each other benefits a very few (usually those in the upper echelons). It seems that this is the way of the world at the moment. FWIW I wasn't trying to compare my Granny's situation with those considering travelling to Belfast to give birth which I think is a pretty bonkers idea (and not because NI healthcare is in anyway inferior).

I live in a county of England with a very strong identity as was astounded by a father to be at a maternity unit tour saying that he was happy for his wife to have an hour's journey to hospital rather than a 15 minute one as the baby had to be born on the right side of the county border! There's nowt so queer as folk!!