Do you think giving birth in Belfast will become a thing post Brexit?

[Lalaloveyou2020]

Since 2005 a person born on the island of Ireland (including NI) to Irish or British parents has a right to apply for Irish citizenship/a passport. I read an article in the FT yesterday discussing the obstacles UK business travellers would face in a post Brexit word, which ended with this:

"There’s one group that will do well out of this: UK-based EU passport holders, who will be able to advertise themselves, both to British employers and to EU service buyers, as being able to travel unhindered around the bloc. Best-placed of all will be Irish passport holders, who can not only travel in the EU, but live and work freely in the UK too. Cecil Rhodes, the British mining magnate and colonialist, once described being English as “the greatest prize in the lottery of life”. Post-Brexit, it’s the Irish who hold the winning ticket."

If you really really wanted your child to have access to the EU in the future, would you be willing to move to Belfast for your birth so that your child could then claim an Irish Passport?

This is meant as a light-hearted discussion more than anything else, though if anyone from NI could chime in on how difficult it would actually be to do, please do so! Reason for going to Northern Ireland over the Republic is the access to the NHS and an automatic right to be both Irish and British at birth.

@GrumpyHoonMain why? What's your reasoning? You've lost me a little.

Wot, you mean the US that isn't a part of the UK the way NI actually is?

We are a part of the UK. We should have to prove residency to no one. Will I fuck be jumping around like a performing chimp to prove residency of the country I was born in. If those in England, Scotland and Wales don't have to do it then why the hell should I.

@ReallySpicyCurry we are financial criminals and terrorists. I have been busy today

@ReallySpicyCurry

Wot, you mean the US that isn't a part of the UK the way NI actually is?

We are a part of the UK. We should have to prove residency to no one. Will I fuck be jumping around like a performing chimp to prove residency of the country I was born in. If those in England, Scotland and Wales don't have to do it then why the hell should I.

I mean fatca. Honestly before jumping in with uneducated opinions a quick google about how the UK already treats UK residents born in different countries and even different parts of the UK would help. People with England / Wales / NI on their birth certificates are already treated differently in Scotland and CI / IOM. And there isn’t even a potential for smuggling there. I imagine people born in NI with access to NI markets will be asked to verify their residency and links to NI each time they want specific goods or services - it’ll just be added to existing processes.

Busy smuggling obvs

People with England / Wales / NI on their birth certificates are already treated differently in Scotland and CI / IOM.

In what respect?

People with England / Wales / NI on their birth certificates are already treated differently in Scotland and CI / IOM.

I was born in England, Mil was born in NI...both of us live in Scotland and neither of us have been treated any differently to dh who was born in Scotland. Examples please.

@GrumpyHoonMain I honestly think the UK gov would not open the can of worms that you suggest. The political situation in NI would not survive it. Westminster doesn't care much for NI but it doesn't want it to go up in flames again. There has been border smuggling in NI since there was a border. The UK Govmt tried to secure the border during the troubles and never managed it. They won't try this time. That's one reason why there is an Irish Sea border now.

@GrumpyHoonMain FATCA is a US federal law which isn't applicable to UK citizens in the UK.
Have you been at the Bucky?

@grumpy has a point saying how uk already treats uk residents..we'v only to open our gobs and we'r eyeballed suspiciously..

we start getting decent trade deals I imagine British citizens might get better free trade (and movement) deals with high growth countries like the USA / India and SE Asian countries than European countries

Ha ha ha ha @GrumpyHoonMain

Part of the deal for having a trade agreement with the EU is always that you cannot agree more favourable terms with another country than you offer to the EU.

You will wait a long time for the US to even open trade negotiations with the UK and even longer for them to offer the UK more favourable terms than agreed with the EU

@GrumpyHoonMain

I actually don't have a clue what you're talking about, so honestly and genuinely I'm totally open for re education here

I was always led to believe that the Channel Islands and IOM were not part of the UK. They are Crown Dependencies.

NI is not a Crown Dependency, it is a part of the UK which theoretically is of equal status as England, Scotland and Wales.

I'm still not sure where the US or FATCA comes in, and apart from forcefeeding me Irn Bru, I've never had a problem with going to Scotland, so this is all a bit baffling to me.

[quote BadEyeBri]@GrumpyHoonMain FATCA is a US federal law which isn't applicable to UK citizens in the UK.
Have you been at the Bucky? [/quote]
Fatca applies to anyone with a US passport living abroad even when someone has two passports. To open a bank account you must declare your status. Similarly people with a passport showing an English or Welsh or NI place of birth need to provide further Scottish residency docs to evidence scottish residency if they want access to free NHS dentistry and optical services. Eventually we’ll get to the point where everyone with a NI place of birth will also require further checks - I work in an industry that’s already consulting with the various government agencies about this issue.

OHHH

I get it now.

Is Grumpy still holding on to hope of a great all American trade deal?

Ergo FATCA applying to ussens?

Right. In that case, Grumpy, I think you might be disappointed. Joe O'Biden would never stand for it.

And how dare you suggest I'm uneducated. I only skipped out on a lecture to go lunchtime drinking in the Speakeasy ONCE.

Ok. Twice.

New rule: if you can't name 5 traybakes, you can't come here to have your weans

NI Citizenship test

That only applies to protestants I know some amazing cooks in NI I've never had a tray-bake. Do scones count?
Speaking of scones the pronunciation cracked me up in NI when DP says scon in a deep voice he thinks I pronounce scone like some from Malone road. 🤣
NI beaches is another great attraction the homes along the coastal areas are spectacular.

Of course if you’ve an NI passport and living in NI or ROI you’re ok. Potential changes to regulation (particularly for financial crime) and further checks will probably only apply for NI born people living in the rest of the UK. And if you don’t have links to NI (ie no European passport when it comes) then things may be easier in terms of access to UK mainland services than if you do.

Right so it's not FATCA, the US isn't annexing us just yet, and it's an extra address check? And we can all still get to IOM and CI via those adorable little micro planes?

Phew. Less dramatic than I thought. I was about ready to go out and take over the village post office there and declare a Republic.

I was about ready to go out and take over the village post office there and declare a Republic.

😂😂😂

Similarly people with a passport showing an English or Welsh or NI place of birth need to provide further Scottish residency docs to evidence scottish residency if they want access to free NHS dentistry and optical services.

Please provide your references for that. No part of the Scottish NHS has ever asked me to prove residency. Not sure my dentist has any clue where I was born, they certainly haven't asked.

Fatca applies to anyone with a US passport living abroad even when someone has two passports. To open a bank account you must declare your status. Similarly people with a passport showing an English or Welsh or NI place of birth need to provide further Scottish residency docs to evidence scottish residency if they want access to free NHS dentistry and optical services. Eventually we’ll get to the point where everyone with a NI place of birth will also require further checks - I work in an industry that’s already consulting with the various government agencies about this issue.

1. Most NI citizens won't have a US passport so give up with FATCA. Unless the US decides to annexe NI in which case you might be completely vindicated.
2. You need proof of residency for lots of things- bank accounts, mobile phones, getting your dog neutered by charity subsidy. It's not NI specific
3. government consultation does not equal job done. It is fact finding. The government consultations in my industry take up time and money and time and money sometimes without drawing any real conclusions.
4. see my previous post about political fragility in NI. If the UK is seeking a good US trade deal they would be well warned not to fuck about in NI. A Democrat lead US government would not look favourably upon this and has publicly said so.
5. while I understand you feel that we don't understand there really isn't any need to be so rude or high handed.

Of course if you’ve an NI passport
What colour will this passport be please? Which fleg? These things are important people

I have a feeling that Grumpy may be of the American persuasion

@BlackLambAndGreyFalcoln

It really doesn't seem right that a British child born to British parents in (London)Derry has more rights than a British child born to British parents in London when both cities belong to the same unitary state.

Derry child here. Would that London child like to swap my very first childhood memory of being evacuated age 4 from my bed by a soldier in the middle of the night?

Would they like to have family members they never met because they were killed on Bloody Sunday? Would they like the PTSD my relative has from holding her friend in her arms while he died after being shot in the head right next to her when they were teenagers? My mums memories of the aftermath of her friend being shot dead in her school uniform?

Would they like the memory my friend has of their bedroom window exploding in on top of them because of the very same bombing @BadEyeBri mentioned?

How about being part of a generation raised by completely traumatised parents & grandparents? And the parents and grandparents suffering from dementia right now who are reliving their trauma every single day as they think they are back there?

Wouldn't have thought so.

My Irish citizenship might be "more rights" in your eyes, but it is in no way comparable to London child losing the right to live & work in the EU as the result of a referendum posed by a democratically elected government and it's gobsmackingly ignorant of you to equate the two.

@bladdybla I still think of the gillespies often. It was a very messed up time growing up wasn't it? And we all thought it was normal to see death and maiming reported on the news every night. Armed soldiers bursting in to your home at night. The works. I often wonder why I came home. But I'd not be happy anywhere else.

@Lalaloveyou2020 hasn’t returned anyway...