.. to think we should scrap private schools?

[katnyps]

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and great teachers in publicly funded schools, but I get the impression that influential roles in society are disproportionately represented by people paid for education... or am I wrong about this too?

I believe that Finland has one of the best (internationally recognised) education system in the world and (apologies if I'm not quite right here, but broadly speaking) that it is actually illegal there to charge for education?

the type of people who send their kids there would have more of a vested interest in state schools - more lobbying councils to improve standards, taking governor positions etc.

LOL at this. Yes, if I am made to take my DC out of private school I will be spending my time doing this. I know lots of well off people whose DC got to state and they do none of this. They are only interested in their own DC.

Also, you can't stop parents doing stuff for their DC. Even if you made me take mine out, I would still tutor them myself, still get them a maths tutor, still take them to extra curricular activities and I will still help build their CVs from an early age which is what I have done with both of mine.

But @Tiramisuzie don't you think politicians and policy makers would care a bit more about education generally if they'd been state educated? I can't imagine Johnson gives a flying dog about it given his background and that of his cronies.

Michaela seem to be getting excellent results and are aiming to send several of their 6th form to Oxford/Cambridge - they are in a very deprived area with high crime, poor facilities and get the same state funding that other schools get. Their aim is that 'Michaela Community School graduates will receive an education that will rival what many of their counterparts receive in the private sector'. They do make different choices in their teaching methods, subjects, behavioural expectations and aspirations for their children - also how they spend their funding.

[quote m0therofdragons]@Sethy38 my twins are 9 and would struggle with that amount of screen time. Evidence shows that isn’t classed as high quality provision of online learning - OFSTED.[/quote]
I’d think that too. But having seen it.... it was brilliant.

4 online lessons over a day... 40 mins a class. No TV or screen otherwise in between - fine.
She was up presenting to the class in one - she loved that especially. Ans they all have a standing Overton to each other.

Highly interactive and supportive

Is Michaela the one with the strict behaviour policies? Sounds as though they worked!

@drsambeckett

Exactly.

I never understand the lack of logic or practical assessment behind these threads. I just assume it’s a bit of a daily mail esque war chant that’s not really been thought through.

Right. Ok then, as of tomorrow no more private schools.

• What happens to the tens of thousands of employees who just lost their jobs?

• What happens to the hundreds of thousands (over 500 thousand) students who suddenly need school places in a system which is already bursting at the seams?

There seems to be a big assumption that;

A- The fancy assets of private schools would just be turned into non private schools.
Never going to happen, those country estates and regal buildings are all privately owned and we don’t live in a communist society where the government can just take private property. They would no doubt be sold off to billionaire foreign investors and/or turned into fancy apartments/homes.

B- wealthy parents would continue paying for their child’s education only this money would go into ‘the system’ Hahahaha
No, no matter how rich a parent is they’re not going to throw money as a crappy local comprehensive.

Equally their child is just as entitled to a free education as any other so actually here is what I think would actually happen if the U.K. scrapped private education.

1. A LOT of people would lose their jobs and the government would not have the funds to create anywhere near enough new roles to go around.

1. A LOT of new student places would be required at state schools with no extra funding given as these kids parents already pay taxes!

1. The gov would have to raise money to fund school expansion and new staff. This would no doubt be a tax increase and would effect everyone to varying levels (as all tax increases do) they could not simply tax the parents of ex private school kids it doesn’t work that way!

The catchment area of ‘good schools’ would become even more saturated by wealthy parents than they currently are, pushing low income families out. Equally very expensive areas would suddenly see more students taking up places at the state schools meaning less kids on the outskirts get places or coming in from non catchment.

@LegoAndLolDolls

Lots of my friends had aspirations in a state school, just because we didn't sit the 11+ doesn't mean you don't have work hard.

Yes of course you should have sets I just don't think the top 10% need there own school.

Well in an ideal world they wouldn't exist. But they are plugging a very large gap that the state sector simply cannot deal with.

Plus all schools are private to an extent anyway. Just look at the house prices in the catchment of fantastic schools. I know someone who wears it as a badge of honour that her kid goes to the "bog standard local state primary". Errrr right, that one where all the houses round it are £1m+ and they have rich, professional parents in for all sorts of lovely enrichment activities and are all members of sports clubs. Yes, bog standard primary. Private in all but name! And worst of all there was one kid out of the single class year group who was disruptive. Family was bullied until they moved away. Be careful what you wish for!

The type of people who send their kids there would have more of a vested interest in state schools - more lobbying councils to improve standards, taking governor positions etc.

No chance.

We will just move house so kids can go to a really good state school. Of course, lots of others will do it, and prices will go up hugely and push out poorer families, but hey, it will be the same education for all

@Dee1975

Rather than complain that rich people shouldnt be allowed to pay for their children’s education, we need to raise the standard in state education (which btw think is fantastic from my experience so far). If you think it’s wrong allowing rich parents to give their child a ‘better’ education, where does it stop? Do we stop them buying ‘better’ clothes’ higher quality food? Etc ...? Point is, if you had the money, wouldn’t you want your child to receive the best?

If you want to make everything fairer you would need to bus children from rich areas into poor ones for state school education as indeed brighton tried for a time, abolish all grammar and C of E, Catholic, Jewish etc schools

Ballots? Strict banding to ensure a mixed ability intake? Larger catchments? One of the most successful London Catholic schools, Cardinal Vaughan, does all of these.

I'd like to see substantial additional funding for students with SEN, from deprived backgrounds, in care, speaking English as a second language, etc, so struggling schools would have additional (or better paid) staff and resources.

If you think it’s wrong allowing rich parents to give their child a ‘better’ education, where does it stop?

It stops with banning private education. Several pps have explained why private education, an advantage that affects almost every aspect of a person's life, is a very different privilege from nice clothes, food, cars, holidays, etc.

Sorry, I meant to delete that quote.

Aside from the logistical difficulties of closing private schools and moving all children to the state system (which I won’t repeat as others have outlined them), I don’t think getting rid of private schools would make any difference at all to educational inequality.

Private school pupils would tend to go to the best state schools - their parents could afford to move within catchment. So the difference between the top and bottom state schools would widen. The gulf would be as wide as ever.

@HasaDigaEebowai

Not this again

Add many thousands of children into an already very stretched state education system. Great plan OP.

Or just make the private school buildings and teachers into state schools open to all in the local area.

@Lockheart

This thread has been done to death many many times. If you search there's loads to read.

I haven't seen any. No reason it can't be done again. If no one wants to comment it will fade away. If it's of interest it will get responses. New people join MN every day.

@drsambeckett

There will never be equality. Some people could still afford to pay for tutors, to live closer to the better schools in areas that the local population are perceived to share their values. Even if you banned all that how do you stop the more interested/ abler parents sitting down with their own children and teaching them.

This has been done to death.

It clearly hasn't been done to death as this thread is getting new comments and is if interest to those who haven't seen it. It's much fairer to ban private schools. Didn't Labour suggest it at one point? I think lots of voters would be behind it. Spread more money into the state schools by sending the wealthier children there. Their parents would contribute to school fund raising. The brightest kids wouldn't be creamed off either therefore equalising the levels a bit more. We should concentrate on bringing the lowest achieving kids up rather than pushing the high achievers even higher. Making a more equal society.

I think a lot of the people so focused on the inequality of private education are the ones probably doing quite well out of state education. It’s a focus on and anxiety about people with more advantage without acknowledging your own privilege .State education is not equal ( talk to any parent of a black boy). It would be interesting to know how many of those calling for this have ever used private tutors. Should that be outlawed? Do people realise that middle class, white parents are treated differently? If you understand the expectations, at a very early age your children will have been set on the higher progress tracks? As Xenia pointed out, true equality does not just involve the abolition of private schools.

Rogue question mark, sorry.

Not enough children are in private schools for it to make any real difference if they were scrapped.

Inequality would still also exist unless you also then ban grammar schools, any school which has a form of selection, catchment areas, use of tutors and out of school academic classes (and to some extent non academic classes) etc.

Labour did suggest the abolition of private, grammar and faith schools. It was one of the reasons I was extremely relieved that they failed in the last election. Obviously not too popular an idea! Catholic schools provide an extremely good education and far outperform other schools in the city I live in. They serve extremely deprived inner city areas. Taking a hatchet to these schools will not fix the state system. Looking to see why they do well would be a better approach.

[quote SendHelp30]@LickEmbysmiling please don’t lay the blame with the school system. Surely you yourself as the parent had ample opportunity to pick up on SEN traits??[/quote]
Please God tell me you are not a teacher? If a teacher cant pick up SEN then how can us plebs pick it up?

I was told my son was fine when he still couldn't pass his phonics screening in year 4 that they should have given up on in infants. The senco, HT and all of those teachers had zero alarm bells about this. They was insistent he had no needs at all.

Either they was incompetent or had extreme pressure to ignore to save intervention budget

As BlackberryCream suggests, looking at what good schools do well would be a better start point than simply decreeing that all schools should be the same.

@OwlWearingGlasses "Or just make the private school buildings and teachers into state schools open to all in the local area."

So basically a mass capital buyout by the state (the charities and businesses that own the schools won't just give them away) followed by a an ongoing increase in the education budget to pay for all those children who would previously have been educated privately?

How would the funding for that work then?
And fund them how?

@LegoAndLolDolls no I’m not a teacher.

Or just make the private school buildings and teachers into state schools open to all in the local area.

Many private schools have very small classrooms, and the buildings are very old and expensive to maintain, lots are quite poorly maintained. It wouldn't be in the least bit cost effective.