Do you believe evil exists?

[MariaAngustias]

So, I am not a religious person, I am a sceptical agnostic. I never really thought about good and evil until I had the experience of meeting someone who emanated... well evil. It seems a bit embarrassing to say it but that is the only way I can describe it.

I was working for the NHS in a very run down area, a lot of patients came from a local Bail hostel and some had done some hideous things - I treated a murder and got on with him fine, felt sorry for him actually cos of the circumstances around what happened and his utter genuine remorse, had a few paedophile patients who, whilst I knew what they did was vile, did not give me the creeps at all. I had also worked in the drug service and come across people who had done some shocking things but nothing really phased me and I saw these people as human beings who had taken a bad path in life . Then.

We had a patient come to us from the hostel and he had an appointment with me. He was an old man with a stick and looked quite pathetic and harmless but he made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end and filled me with such dread and horror. He looked at me as though he was trying to read my mind and said really creepy stuff like 'I showed children how to kill animals' and seemed to be playing with me. In the end I asked another person to come in the room with me and she said she felt it too and we both could not wait to get him out of the room. We were both so shaken and I just said 'I have met pure evil'. I still believe I did and it is the only time that has ever happened in my life.

WTF was it?

@MillieEpple

I think humanity is faulty for want of a better word. We seem so different that other mammals. I think some individuals carry out evil acts and there is definatley a prey feeling that can be triggered - but sometimes whole societies are complicit or involed in evil. The transatlantic slave trade stands out.id be surprised if many individuals involved in that were giving off vibes. Its not like there was one enigmatic/feared leader like Hitler. It spanned centuries and countries. Im moving towards thinking evil is money/power at a national level and something else at an undicidual level and sometimes the two combine.

As abominable as it was, it's fascinating, though not uncommon that you have singled out the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade as evidence of evil.

The Islamic slave trade long preceded the Atlantic trade, and still continues in several places to this very day. The Ottoman Turks had a slave trade network that made the Trans Atlantic one look like an amateur venture - in comparison. Male, black African slaves were systematically castrated without anaesthetic by The Ottomans. Many of these slaves died as a result. This is the only reason Turkey does not have a black community today.

It's odd that this never gets taught in schools or anywhere else. Whilst Westerners quite rightly learn about Western slavery, it isn't at all common in the Islamic world to talk about theirs in the same way because slavery is 100% legal in terms of shari'a law. There's also the caste system, still active in India.

I don't know if this makes the entire societies involved evil.

I picked the transatlantic slave trade as it wasnt specific to one country, religion or one period of time. So it felt quite universal to the human condition. But yes there are lots of examples of slave trade through history and now - which does make me think its a faulty part of humanity as it seems so persistent.

@MillieEpple
We seem so different that other mammals.

Really? You think mammals are kind and benevolent to each other? Or even to others of their own species, if they are competing for the same resources? That's not the case at all. Nature is pretty red in tooth and claw.

Humans are animals too. We aren't that far from our instincts. Yes, we can choose sometimes to overcome them, but they are part of us.

Jaypreen it’s known that a predisposition of schizophrenia can run in families what has that got to do with being evil ?

Being schizophrenic does not make you evil you might suffer psychosis and harm someone far more likely to harm yourself in some way

So her family have a history of schizophrenia and there is still no awareness of their daughters serious mh issues - I would suggest more is going on there. I don’t think things are quite as rosey as portrayed

@miimblemomble no I dont think that. I've watched my cat catch a mouse and play with it. I dont think he was conscious of it being wrong but i'm not a cat so maybe he is psychopath.
I do think there is something different about people. We have whole systems of justice which we suspend for profit levels which go far beyond survival.

@OhWhyNot

Jaypreen it’s known that a predisposition of schizophrenia can run in families what has that got to do with being evil ?

Being schizophrenic does not make you evil you might suffer psychosis and harm someone far more likely to harm yourself in some way

So her family have a history of schizophrenia and there is still no awareness of their daughters serious mh issues - I would suggest more is going on there. I don’t think things are quite as rosey as portrayed

No, I appreciate all of that. I'm not saying having schizophrenia makes one do evil things. But according to C. Raymond Lake, a psychiatrist and prof' emeritus at the University of Kansas School of Medicine. who's studied Morgan's case. "It is very relevant that Morgan's father had a history of mental illness, and especially that he had psychotic thinking that caused him to hallucinate".

archive.jsonline.com/news/crime/critical-hearing-in-slender-man-case-to-begin-today-b99520903z1-307851871.html

There is also the nagging point about Morgan's odd lack of empathy that her mother attested to.

You could be right in saying I would suggest more is going on there. I don’t think things are quite as rosey as portrayed. But if there had been any evidence whatsoever that Morgan was exposed to any form of physical or mental abuse as a child. It would certainly have been used by the defence council in her trial. I can find no mention of it either on the Facebook page set up by her supporters who're trying to get her re-tried in a juvenile court.

Also in the same article -
Nothing in police records or in Waukesha County Juvenile Court or other public documents suggests the Geyser family had any violent history or contact with social services.

It's fairly well established that frontal lobe damage can be the cause of aggressive and violent behaviour.

n.neurology.org/content/46/5/1231

It's also well known that infants can sustain brain injuries around the time of birth or in the neonatal period. Given there's so much that's unknown about the human brain, I'd say that's where the answer is most likely to lie. Obviously I don't know why she did what she did, but I'd guess that mental illness from birth is the most likely explanation for it.

I believe it does exist yes

I also believe as you say there can be a diffeeence between those who are evil and those who have done bad things.

I once heard the reaction you described as the reaction the body has when coming into contact with a psychopath.

Off on a tangent here but it never ceases to amaze me how many people who themselves aren't evil are willing to turn a blind eye to evil behaviour and so allow it to thrive. I really struggle with this- all those people who did know that Jimmy Savile was abusing children etc but decided not to do anything. What is it in people that makes them find excuses to do nothing?

Also, I think Hannah Arendt was right about the banality of evil and its 'ordinariness'. The administrators of the holocaust for example. Or (smaller scale but I still think evil) those corporates who decided to take a profit of £25 of taxpayers' money for every measly £5 worth of FSM 'hampers' they gave to poor families.

@Helocariad

Off on a tangent here but it never ceases to amaze me how many people who themselves aren't evil are willing to turn a blind eye to evil behaviour and so allow it to thrive. I really struggle with this- all those people who did know that Jimmy Savile was abusing children etc but decided not to do anything. What is it in people that makes them find excuses to do nothing?

Also, I think Hannah Arendt was right about the banality of evil and its 'ordinariness'. The administrators of the holocaust for example. Or (smaller scale but I still think evil) those corporates who decided to take a profit of £25 of taxpayers' money for every measly £5 worth of FSM 'hampers' they gave to poor families.

I think "average" people have difficulty in believing how bad (evil?) some people can be. Even when confronted with clear evidence, they will try to rationalise it away as having some reasonable cause, which can be overcome if they try hard enough/if they get enough opportunities.

Especially when you know these people through everyday work, hobby, family, etc.. Its much easier to rationalise that serial killers are psychopaths, much harder to admit that you've been taken in by a work colleague or lover who meets most of the Hare checklist (he believed that psychopaths numbered up to 1 in 20 of the population and of course, the vast majority arent serial killers at all).

So in answer to the OP, I'd say for me I tend to define as evil someone who meets the criteria for being diagnosed as a psychopath and who has regularly upset people or caused disruption allied to that. Of course, it unlikely that most people who are not criminals will be diagnosed, but I just mean to say that my definition of evil is'nt the biblical definition, as one poster above said, but more along the lines of someone who repeatedly chooses to cause harm to others.

@AdultHumanFemale

Err... nope. Fucked up people exist, not "evil".

I agree with this entirely. There are no "monsters", as far as I'm concerned, there are sadistic and fucked up human beings. IMO "evil" is what we call people who do things so horrific we can't comprehend their actions or relate to them... they couldn't possibly be human beings like us.

I am very grateful for all the fascinating replies and experiences - wow, it has generated a lot of interest.

Tbh i think most people have a 'bad' streak. I do not believe that we are totally good. We do what we need to do to survive in this world and that may lead to us doing some 'bad' things such as backstabbing colleagues etc.
However i believe true evil is rarer but the holocaust was evil ...as was everyone involved.
So often humanity votes in governments who do ' bad' things as they think they will serve their own interests first. It is how we are built sadly.
Thankfully i think most people have a good streak too and it balances out the bad streak.

No , in the sense that its something "other than" human . I think we use the term to dissociate humans from awful behaviour. I believe what we see in others is truly still the full spectrum of human behaviour. We are them and they are us .

@AdultHumanFemale

Err... nope. Fucked up people exist, not "evil".

This

Tbh i think most people have a 'bad' streak. I do not believe that we are totally good. We do what we need to do to survive in this world
Me too, we are all capable of murder if if it was our only option for survival or to save a loved one.
Evil murder is different from fighting for your life. I don't believe anyone is born evil circumstances, MH issues, abuse, neglect, jealously and rage can create a monster sometimes.
There is a rhyme of truth in the Wolf story.
^The story basically revolves about a man who asks why there are good and bad people. Someone told him that humans have two wolves living inside them - one is a good wolf and the other is the bad wolf. And then he proceeds to ask who is stronger between the two then he was answered "the one you feed the most"^

@hellejuice91

I believe it does exist yes

I also believe as you say there can be a diffeeence between those who are evil and those who have done bad things.

I once heard the reaction you described as the reaction the body has when coming into contact with a psychopath.

I don't think so. I think evil is a superstitious term.

I think it's most likely that people commit "evil" acts as a result of brain damage.

I also just watched Night Stalker and that man imo was evil. But I also think he was incredibly unwell, his childhood was horrific. It doesnt excuse what he did, but it lends itself to the question - had his childhood been happy and "normal" would he have turned into the depraved person he did. But I admit, looking into his eyes in the mugshot felt chilling.

I have met one person I just felt was evil, but also clearly a narcissist. He felt he was in charge on his housing estate and if you stepped out of line of the rules he created (not that he broadcast these rules) you became his enemy and he made it his mission to ruin your life. But by little things, a very clever sort of pick pick pick at them until they either moved away or snapped and turned on him. Then as if by magic he declares himself the victim. He especially likes to pick on single girls who dare to have more than one guy visit her. You wouldn't think him intrinsically evil, but the sheer delight he gets from slowly emotionally destroying these girls is just horrific.

Well fed domestic cats will torture prey for the thrill of it, not through hunger or necessity.

They are acting on instinct. Just like they'll chase a laser pointer, or "kill" a toy mouse. They're not torturing their prey for the thrill of it.

Off on a tangent here but it never ceases to amaze me how many people who themselves aren't evil are willing to turn a blind eye to evil behaviour and so allow it to thrive. I really struggle with this- all those people who did know that Jimmy Savile was abusing children etc but decided not to do anything. What is it in people that makes them find excuses to do nothing?

If lots of people know, and it's known that lots of people know, everyone expects someone would have already done something if it was really as bad as it appears.

We are basically sheep. Nobody likes to make the first move.

If it's a company the responsibility is diluted, nobody feels particularly to blame. Or they just want to keep their job so don't rock the boat. I was in a job where I was expected to do something wrong (financial, misleading customers) I refused to do it, strongly advised colleagues not to do it but didn't report it because I needed the job and was already being bullied.

@GrolliffetheDragon

Well fed domestic cats will torture prey for the thrill of it, not through hunger or necessity.

They are acting on instinct. Just like they'll chase a laser pointer, or "kill" a toy mouse. They're not torturing their prey for the thrill of it.

Tell that to the prey who's being slowly tortured to death. To the prey, the cat is evil.

I compared our definition of evil to behaviour that lacks humanity. There's no humanity in the 'instinct' to prolong killing a living, feeling being. My dog has the same killer instinct (although he doesn't torture, quick shake gives an instant death).

We tolerate it in our pets because we don't expect humanity from them. They're not human.