Do you believe evil exists?

[MariaAngustias]

So, I am not a religious person, I am a sceptical agnostic. I never really thought about good and evil until I had the experience of meeting someone who emanated... well evil. It seems a bit embarrassing to say it but that is the only way I can describe it.

I was working for the NHS in a very run down area, a lot of patients came from a local Bail hostel and some had done some hideous things - I treated a murder and got on with him fine, felt sorry for him actually cos of the circumstances around what happened and his utter genuine remorse, had a few paedophile patients who, whilst I knew what they did was vile, did not give me the creeps at all. I had also worked in the drug service and come across people who had done some shocking things but nothing really phased me and I saw these people as human beings who had taken a bad path in life . Then.

We had a patient come to us from the hostel and he had an appointment with me. He was an old man with a stick and looked quite pathetic and harmless but he made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end and filled me with such dread and horror. He looked at me as though he was trying to read my mind and said really creepy stuff like 'I showed children how to kill animals' and seemed to be playing with me. In the end I asked another person to come in the room with me and she said she felt it too and we both could not wait to get him out of the room. We were both so shaken and I just said 'I have met pure evil'. I still believe I did and it is the only time that has ever happened in my life.

WTF was it?

@ParkheadParadise I'm truly sorry you've lived the nightmare of real evil.
The memories you have of DD are very special I thought it was beautiful how you brought DD2 to meet DD1 first before anyone else.
Thankfully he is gone from this world.

Evil exists: Hitler and the German extermination camps were evil.

Yes, either with people I've known, heard about or even objects that have been in my or people I know possession.

I do think evil can be conditioned - e.g. if you're brought up in a sadistic and unkind environment then I think evil can develop from your treatment.

Funnily enough, there's someone locally who I know by sight, used to see him regularly, not stating what he does. I got a strange vibe from him so just ignored him. One of my close friends who's a practising Catholic saw him once when I was out with her and she commented to me, without me saying, that she thought, not that he was evil but that she didn't like him or trust him one little bit as he gave off these vibes.

There's also someone in my family through marriage - not a nice person at all and now divorced from the family member. We all got 'evil' vibes from him. Didn't surprise me when a few years later DBro visited him and he showed him a room in his house with a Satanic worship area with altar etc. I've heard he's done nasty things to people but I really don't want to know too much about that. Funny thing is my DM rescued him from a house fire years ago. My DF was best friends with this man.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

I can’t say I’ve ever met anyone who gave me that vibe, but I believe other people who have. I don’t think anyone would say it lightly.

Back in the 70s or 80s, my DM, who was an acutely sensitive type, met Jimmy Savile at a social do at Broadmoor - my DPs lived close by and were friends with the chief psychiatrist and his wife.
My DM said at the time how he utterly gave her the shudders.

I didn’t think too much about it then, since I’d always found his TV presence off putting and unsavoury.

A friend of mine once said how a fairly ordinary looking man approaching her on the street set all her ‘danger’ senses tingling. The dog she was walking - a very big Newfoundland - evidently felt the same, since he started a low warning growl until the man was well past them. She said he’d never done that before and was very glad to have had him with her - appropriately enough he was called Hero.

I met Jimmy Savile once, when I raised money for his charity and he invited me and my school class to watch his TV show being filmed. I was only 9 at the time and funnily enough didn't pick up on evil vibes back then!

Yes, of course it exists; all qualities have their opposites, so if we accept that "good" exists (and I believe most of us do) then so does evil

What it looks like can be open to interpretation, but it's often not hard to recognise it when seen - that's what our internal compass, or gut instinct if you prefer, is for

No I don't believe in evil as a human quality or condition

Whilst there can be reasons such as issues from childhood that can influence peoples behaviour, some people are just born bad. And grow up to do evil things. And some people have a great difficulty accepting that.

Evil as some kind of force or entity, no. People who are so unstable/damaged etc that they have no humanity about them? Yes, thats more in line with what I consider evil. I've come across such a person once, as a teen, I went with a friend to her older boyfriends house, he had a friend there, who I was left alone in the kitchen with for a while, and I kid you not everything in my being was teling me to get away from him. I did not stay long, after making up an excuse about needing to go home, I dragged my friend out and alost vomietd on the building stairwell I was so terrified, even though he hadnt done much other than make some odd small talk.

I found out later, that he'd raped two girls, beating them black and blue on the process, and was out of prison just recently. I'd had a very lucky escape.

Yes. Evil is often characterised as 'inhuman', as though we are keen to otherize it as an entity apart from ourselves. IMO, it's wholly restricted to humanity. It's a wholly human concept relating to exclusively human behaviour. When people commit evil deeds, sadly they're not inhuman. They are entirely the opposite.

As to whether evil exists personified, that's another of life's impossible questions. My younger, more naive self would have responded 'no, there are evil deeds and evil people'. Now I'm less certain.

As to the simplistic boiling down of individual humans into an either/or, we are far too complex a species for that. Most of us, given the right set of variables, are possibly capable of real good or extreme evil. (I like to think otherwise as far as the latter is concerned but who can be sure)? By close accounts even Hitler was kind to animals and a vegetarian. Then I read stories like that of @ParkheadParadise, whose situation I've read about here before (and I'm so sorry, as ever). And it does make you wonder.

Evil is a shady, nebulous concept that is difficult to define. But I'm now worldly enough to believe that yes, unfortunately it does exist.

NB. Savernake Forest was a creative writing exercise. It's a cracking good story, I'll hand its author that. But that's all it was: a story.

Evil's a decision. Not a state of mind.

I don't believe in evil.

I believe people have personality disorders that can be present at birth or can be caused by trauma etc.

Psychopathy
Sociopathy
Narcissists
Bpd

Etc.

I believe people react to instinct when they meet a "predator".

What ISIS did to their "enemies". In particular the Yazidi people was pure evil.

@Jaypreen

What ISIS did to their "enemies". In particular the Yazidi people was pure evil.

But this is not necessarily what ISIS do to their enemies. E.G. homosexuals in Muslim countries they often push them to their deaths (from high buildings) whether they're ISIS or not.

Stoning to death etc - also carried out not necessarily by ISIS. Executing by cranes, common in Iraq.

I realise the sadistic murder and torture of homosexuals, "adulterous" women and apostates is customary behavior in muslim countries.

But that does not negate the behaviour of ISIS does it?

Evil explodes when it meets its likeness. I'm sure there is something in evil people that clicks between them when they meet allowing each other know they think alike without words.

But this is not necessarily what ISIS do to their enemies. E.G. homosexuals in Muslim countries they often push them to their deaths (from high buildings) whether they're ISIS or not.

Stoning to death etc - also carried out not necessarily by ISIS. Executing by cranes, common in Iraq.

I'm from Pakistan, and they don't push homosexual people off from buildings

And Google just how many transgender people there are in Pakistan!

Nice way to derail the thread though.

@Jaypreen

I realise the sadistic murder and torture of homosexuals, "adulterous" women and apostates is customary behavior in muslim countries.

But that does not negate the behaviour of ISIS does it?

of course it doesn't negate the behaviour of ISIS.

@SharonasCorona

But this is not necessarily what ISIS do to their enemies. E.G. homosexuals in Muslim countries they often push them to their deaths (from high buildings) whether they're ISIS or not.

Stoning to death etc - also carried out not necessarily by ISIS. Executing by cranes, common in Iraq.

I'm from Pakistan, and they don't push homosexual people off from buildings

And Google just how many transgender people there are in Pakistan!

Nice way to derail the thread though.

I'm not saying in Pakistan they push homosexual people off buildings. However, Islam says homosexuality is a sin.

They certainly do in Islamic state controlled countries like in Syria and Iraq.

@SharonasCorona

But this is not necessarily what ISIS do to their enemies. E.G. homosexuals in Muslim countries they often push them to their deaths (from high buildings) whether they're ISIS or not.

Stoning to death etc - also carried out not necessarily by ISIS. Executing by cranes, common in Iraq.

I'm from Pakistan, and they don't push homosexual people off from buildings

And Google just how many transgender people there are in Pakistan!

Nice way to derail the thread though.

actually to be fair to you, I've just googled homosexuality and Pakistan and it seems it's much more accepted in Pakistan than you'd think.

But, having worked with a few Pakistani men - most of them were accepting of a gay colleague but would never have 'come out' if they were gay.

Evil's a decision. Not a state of mind

But I'd suggest the state of mind also drives the decisions

Since the Holocaust's naturally been mentioned, it's also worth looking at what the catholic church did to enable the SS and even to assist their escape. Sadly, evil people exist within religion too

[quote NotExactlyMrsCurrentAffairs]@LouJ85 I don't know, I would have expected so due to the seriousness of most of the displayed behaviour.
I'm only a Lunchtime supervisor. I have reported his behaviour many times and had to get the SLT involved on a few occasions. I'm never told of the outcome of any of the incidents.[/quote]

Hopefully he's getting the support he needs then, as that's not normal behaviour for a child at all and it would be a warning sign for me that something isn't quite right at home.

Evil does not 'exist', it's a concept which is an entirely man-made construct used as a counterpoint to supposed 'good'.

Perfectly reasonable to use it as a descriptor for behaviours and actions, but it doesn't exist as an entity all by itself.

Sadly, evil people exist within religion too The question is why would religion be any different it was founded, is populated and run by human beings after all ? Yes, RE: The holocaust, the Catholic church has its share of complicity. To its credit, it has acknowledged it . www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?next_url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.washingtonpost.com%2farchive%2fpolitics%2f1998%2f03%2f17%2fvatican-apologizes-to-jews%2fce5ea6e9-bd97-4022-b639-288342b63455%2f

As far as nations go, Mussolini's Italy, The Vichy French, The Poles and all of the long extant puppet gov's the Nazi's installed throughout occupied Europe, must take their share of the blame also.

History's crucial to religious and national self-understanding. But as far as nations go, contrast Japan and Germany. Germany's acknowledged its guilt for the Holocaust. Arguably, it's gone a bit too far with that guilt but it's certainly seen the truth of its own history and as a result sees the importance of democratic politics. On balance, it's made Germany a better place.

Japan, by contrast, has a large subculture which acknowledges no guilt whatsoever for WW2, seeing Japan's actions instead as only anti-colonial, which was the story from the Japanese leadership during the war. As a result, the Japanese have a huge problem with China who were Japan's main victims in WW2. That problem will only get worse over time.

Our history is our judge and our guide. It's crucial to our future.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Evil does not 'exist', it's a concept which is an entirely man-made construct used as a counterpoint to supposed 'good'.

Perfectly reasonable to use it as a descriptor for behaviours and actions, but it doesn't exist as an entity all by itself.

I'm not sure how you can be so certain .

I believe it exists in the form of 'bad' genetics. People like that would have existed (and still do) as remnants of our evolutionary past. That paired with a poor moral compass and lack of self control leads to evil.