To think NMW is not enough?

[Ilovegreentomatoes]

Considering most of the care industry has basically had to continue to run as normal during this pandemic because we are an essential sector why is it seen as acceptable for care workers, nursery workers to still be on NMW?.
The government know how invaluable our services are but we are still bottom of the pile for pay, benefits etc.
Its disgusting that we don't get sick pay either but that's a whole different thread.
AIBU to think that all NMW should be at least £10 + an hour and sick pay mandatory for all professions. More needs to be done to address this but it always seems to be swept under the carpet.

[quote scubadub]@BubblyBarbara
Brexit will allow us to increase minimum wage faster as the EU made us keep it low to not disadvantage poorer countries. We can now make our own rules and with more people staying in the UK for holidays and less immigrants there will be less money leaving the country and more staying here for higher wages.*

The min wage in Ireland is over 10 euro and most places pay min wage of €12 and we are in the EU 🤷‍♀️ wages here in general are much better!! Teachers here start at over 35k for example. We have better rules when it comes to zero hours contracts...
I think in general wages in the U.K. are shite...
Benefits are better in Ireland also
Child benefit is not means tested and is double what U.K. parents get. I fail to see why your low wages are the fault of the EU to be honest!!?[/quote]
10 Euro Irish minimum wage converts to £8.89

UK minimum wage for 2021 is £8.91

So virtually the same.

@Kazzyhoward yeah I suppose it is.

Minimum to be exact I suppose is 10.20 and as I said that's minimum but most ppl get €12.
My 17 yr old niece gets €10.40 working in a book shop.

@Kazzyhoward to be fair that increase hasn't actually happened In the U.K. yet, it's due to happen in Apr 2021. Ours has been over €10 for some time.

But as long as people are prepared to work for such low pay, it will continue

With a high unemployment rate, employers can and will pay NMW. Add the wonder of UC credit to it and you find it's an employers paradise to get away with the absolute minimum. People get sanctioned for not taking an available job based on wages.
It's a downward spiral, that business and the economy relay on for profits.

But as long as people are prepared to work for such low pay, it will continue

Jeez.
Even by MN standards that is a ludicrous thing to say.
Silly people simply not asking for what pay they want

Don't be under the illusion that the people at the top, whether that be the government or the executives of a corporation, care about anything other than feathering their own nests.

Earlier up the thread, I said but as long as people are prepared to work for such low pay, it will continue.

A few people have expressed surprise at this - I don't think I worded it very well!! I know people don't work in such low paid, hard work, out of choice. I'm currently working in a not much above NMW job myself. I don't like it and I don't see my situation changing any time soon, but I am 'prepared' to do it because I need a job and my circumstances don't really allow me to get a better paid job. If I left, I would be very, very easily replaced.

So in a capitalist economy, where the NMW is set so low, if people will work for it, why would an employer pay more? It's not right, but how is it going to change, unless the law changes? It's not even any good saying 'get yourself a better education' because we NEED people to do these jobs. They should be valued far more highly, but as they're 'women's jobs', they're not.

It's fine to complain about it, but what can we do to change it? I would be genuinely interested to hear how this can happen.

If I left, I would be very, very easily replaced.

This is the issue, supply and demand.

Maybe someone can explain this better to me, but if we doubled minimum wage as some are suggesting, and in turn we would need to scale up the pay of someone who currently is on £20 an hour and so on, surely we would just have inflation, a loaf of bread would now cost £2 rather than £1 as companies sought to cover the higher wage cost, house prices would rise significantly as people have higher purchasing power and so on?

carers who work in care homes should be paid more.
the work they do looking after our adult children is amazing(not all people in care homes are elderly) Its terrible that people that give so much are paid so little.

@VikingsandDragons

Maybe someone can explain this better to me, but if we doubled minimum wage as some are suggesting, and in turn we would need to scale up the pay of someone who currently is on £20 an hour and so on, surely we would just have inflation, a loaf of bread would now cost £2 rather than £1 as companies sought to cover the higher wage cost, house prices would rise significantly as people have higher purchasing power and so on?

Not only that but basic economic theory is that if you increase demand (i.e. people have more money in their pockets), then prices rise, i.e. inflation, so you end up back where you started.

We saw it with rental prices when the govt didn't have a limit on housing benefits - they'd pay what the market asked, so the market price increased.

Same with university tuition fees. Govt increased loans to £9k, so Unis' increased course fees to £9k.

There are no easy answers, which is why successive governments only ever make gradual/small changes to benefits, tax, spending, etc etc. Whatever is changed will have consequences.

@VikingsandDragons

Maybe someone can explain this better to me, but if we doubled minimum wage as some are suggesting, and in turn we would need to scale up the pay of someone who currently is on £20 an hour and so on, surely we would just have inflation, a loaf of bread would now cost £2 rather than £1 as companies sought to cover the higher wage cost, house prices would rise significantly as people have higher purchasing power and so on?

Indeed! I am on a good salary but I cannot afford to pay 20quids per hour my cleaner or nanny unless my own salary doubles in which case nothing has changed really, they both still have less spending power than me... or I would stop working as I couldn't afford a nanny etc. Communism is one response to this feeling of unfairness but it doesn't work either. There is no easy answer.

and in turn we would need to scale up the pay of someone who currently is on £20 an hour and so on,

Why? The point of minimum wage is to reduce inequality not to increase all incomes by a certain factor.

The low pay of our care workers is one of the biggest scandals of our time. Thank you for all that you do.

@BubblyBarbara

and in turn we would need to scale up the pay of someone who currently is on £20 an hour and so on,

Why? The point of minimum wage is to reduce inequality not to increase all incomes by a certain factor.

The only thing is nurses probably would drop to a lower role if they could earn the same as a carer so everyone would need shuffling up the scale a little. With a limit of earning under £12 per hour for example.

@BubblyBarbara

and in turn we would need to scale up the pay of someone who currently is on £20 an hour and so on,

Why? The point of minimum wage is to reduce inequality not to increase all incomes by a certain factor.

Because then care would become too expensive. By definition carers are paid by others who need them (this is a bit simplistic of course but that's the idea). If Care workers are on 20pounds per hour there will not be many private carers employed and tax will have to go up quite a bit to cover the care required by people who cannot afford it. If nursery nurse/childcare workers are on 20pounds per hour then parents will not be able to afford childcare and women (usually) will stop work. Or the Government needs to step in further in which case tax will increase again, for everyone. No easy solution I don't think.

Where are the buggers hiding who voted YABU? Cowards.

I'm one.

I don't believe the level of pay is the root of the issue. The real problem lies at the fact we are a capitalist society where profit is king.

If the nmw was raised to £15 or even £25 p/h nothing would change. Companies would just pass on the increase in costs, raising the cost of living. At the same time the people who are currently in better paid roles would demand a pay rise to reflect their skills. After all why would you chose to spend years training, or to work in undesirable/stressful/dangerous jobs if you could earn the same as a delivery driver or a cashier? The end result is us back to where we are now.

The only way you'll see an actual change is if we, as a society, change to be more compassionate and socialist society with a focus on equity instead of profit (a pipe dream I know).

If you're speaking specifically about the care sector then the only way I can see care staff being better paid is if it's funded. But considering how many people are so vehemently against their house/estate/inheritance going towards care I can't see that happening any time soon.

Perhaps slightly off topic, but I would prefer employees to earn a living wage, rather than having to rely on tax credits

If nursery nurse/childcare workers are on 20pounds per hour then parents will not be able to afford childcare and women (usually) will stop work. Or the Government needs to step in further in which case tax will increase again, for everyone.

Hmm, but the nursery workers would already be paying more tax on their higher earnings, tax credits/UC bill would reduce, and the people able to work because nursery was made accessible due to better funding would be paying more tax and increasing productivity. Better access to childcare etc also usually leads to more stable population growth rather than a decline which also matters from an economic perspective.

It's more complex than just shuffling a fixed pot around.