To think NMW is not enough?

[Ilovegreentomatoes]

Considering most of the care industry has basically had to continue to run as normal during this pandemic because we are an essential sector why is it seen as acceptable for care workers, nursery workers to still be on NMW?.
The government know how invaluable our services are but we are still bottom of the pile for pay, benefits etc.
Its disgusting that we don't get sick pay either but that's a whole different thread.
AIBU to think that all NMW should be at least £10 + an hour and sick pay mandatory for all professions. More needs to be done to address this but it always seems to be swept under the carpet.

Brexit will allow us to increase minimum wage faster as the EU made us keep it low to not disadvantage poorer countries. We can now make our own rules and with more people staying in the UK for holidays and less immigrants there will be less money leaving the country and more staying here for higher wages.

Unfortunately there is no point arbitrarily inflating wages because the cost of everything else will follow suit.

(To the op's original point)

You’re not wrong at all, but it will never happen.

I’m in my 40s. I have an early years degree and lead a baby room. I earn a few pence an hour over minimum wage. No sick pay. Minimum holiday entitlement and I have to use 2 weeks at Christmas when my setting closes. So only 2 weeks to use through the whole year.

It’s utterly soul destroying.

Thank god for the children.

I don't believe the majority of care for vulnerable people should be in the hands of private industry. Profit should not be the driver. However, 'care' can range from shopping and cleaning, to much more skilled personal care, verging on nursing. Those skills deserve more than minimum wage.

@BubblyBarbara

Brexit will allow us to increase minimum wage faster as the EU made us keep it low to not disadvantage poorer countries. We can now make our own rules and with more people staying in the UK for holidays and less immigrants there will be less money leaving the country and more staying here for higher wages.

Ha that sounds very likely

@BubblyBarbara

Brexit will allow us to increase minimum wage faster as the EU made us keep it low to not disadvantage poorer countries. We can now make our own rules and with more people staying in the UK for holidays and less immigrants there will be less money leaving the country and more staying here for higher wages.

Utter codswallop.

I totally agree with everything others have said about poor wages and conditions. But...

You are expecting the government or someone else to do something about that. You'll be waiting a very long time. Did nobody learn anything from history? This is capitalism. It exists to make profit from the labour of workers. If you want a bigger share of the pie, or a bigger pie, or even something that isn't pie, it's up to you to get off your backsides (or your knees) and fight for it.

Why settle at £10 an hour? Why not £30 or £40 or maybe more?

To achieve this the hourly cost paid by the elderly person (often funded by remortgaging house) would have to more than double!

Another example of how low down on the chain we are.

We are just an afterthought not valid or paid enough to have our concerns listened to.

I think it's partly because in many peoples eyes, we are no big loss. Easily replaced if we leave because we don't feel safe, because we're off sick long term- or worse or course. Plenty of unemployed people around at the moment who think it'd be a nice easy job to walk in to. They don't even need a qualification beforehand.

If these caring roles (as well as teaching and nursing roles) were done by men, things would be very different...

@Ilovegreentomatoes

Meant the biggest joke is I work in a nursery am expected to do tons of paperwork on early years development plan and implement enriching activities, safeguard and go on tons of courses to update my knowledge and given the impressive title of early years educator and still paid NMW.. Sure some ppl still believe we sit and play with the children all day.

This is so true. I worked as a nursery nurse for 10 years and after a 9 hour shift had to go home and do loads of paperwork. I lost so much time with my children. And all the hours I did on paperwork were unpaid. Now I work in a supermarket which was easier until Covid hit. Now still on minimum wage and risking my life, like so many others. Years ago I'm sure there was an experiment where an MP lived on NMW for a month and couldn't do it. Still didn't make any difference. Care and nursery work should be much higher paid.

NMW is clearly well below adequate given the government need to top it up with UC etc. Even the living wage is too low. We ought to have legislation that makes employers pay staff adequately - including holidays and sick pay.

@BubblyBarbara

Brexit will allow us to increase minimum wage faster as the EU made us keep it low to not disadvantage poorer countries. We can now make our own rules and with more people staying in the UK for holidays and less immigrants there will be less money leaving the country and more staying here for higher wages.

Yes, that’s definitely what’s going to happen.

@BubblyBarbara
Brexit will allow us to increase minimum wage faster as the EU made us keep it low to not disadvantage poorer countries. We can now make our own rules and with more people staying in the UK for holidays and less immigrants there will be less money leaving the country and more staying here for higher wages.*

The min wage in Ireland is over 10 euro and most places pay min wage of €12 and we are in the EU 🤷‍♀️ wages here in general are much better!! Teachers here start at over 35k for example. We have better rules when it comes to zero hours contracts...
I think in general wages in the U.K. are shite...
Benefits are better in Ireland also
Child benefit is not means tested and is double what U.K. parents get. I fail to see why your low wages are the fault of the EU to be honest!!?

@MsVestibule

I agree. NMW is far too low for such important work. £10ph is still less than £20k pa (for a 37.5 hr), so hardly an exorbitant salary.

But as long as people are prepared to work for such low pay, it will continue.

People aren't prepared to work for low pay, many people have to take whatever work is available so they can make ends meet.

And unscrupulous employers take advantage of that.

[quote scubadub]@BubblyBarbara
Brexit will allow us to increase minimum wage faster as the EU made us keep it low to not disadvantage poorer countries. We can now make our own rules and with more people staying in the UK for holidays and less immigrants there will be less money leaving the country and more staying here for higher wages.*

The min wage in Ireland is over 10 euro and most places pay min wage of €12 and we are in the EU 🤷‍♀️ wages here in general are much better!! Teachers here start at over 35k for example. We have better rules when it comes to zero hours contracts...
I think in general wages in the U.K. are shite...
Benefits are better in Ireland also
Child benefit is not means tested and is double what U.K. parents get. I fail to see why your low wages are the fault of the EU to be honest!!?[/quote]
I remember reading about the CB being a lot higher I was shocked I only found out on MN!. Is Ireland really expensive though to live?

I've thought for many years the care sector should be ashamed of how little they pay the carers (carer allowance also). The work carers do is invaluable and the pay should reflect that. The new starters in my supermarket get better pay & benefits and we aren't responsible for lives and wellbeing of the most vulnerable.

The NMW & Benefits system needs a huge shake up to being it up to a standard where people can actually live and noone is depending on foodbanks. I don't have the answers as to what the answers are but I think universal income could be a start.

Carers you all have my respect for what you do, I don't think I could do everything you get done

I think it pretty much evens out tbh @Worldbarbie.
I have a friend who moved back here from the U.K.
She finds it pretty similar to be honest. One thing evens out another
Here there is no council tax And No water bills

She finds food shopping here pretty similar if you shop at lidl/Aldi.

Car insurance is a bit higher, fuel a bit higher.

Her childcare options here actually work out cheaper. Completely Free from 9-12 everyday for 2 years before school starts. For a start. She pays after that but says it's way cheaper for her.

Rent is more expensive here I think but she owns but it's worth saying that rent is expensive.

The carers who look after my dad are amazing. They should be paid more.
NMW should doubled at least and proper contracts for everyone. None of this zero hours bullshit.

@scubadub and your health care system works differently too? I worked with an Irish nurse and she was telling me a little bit about it.

I just looked it up and care givers here in Ireland can earn anything from €12.70 -€15 per hour depending on length of service and where they are in the country but the Average pay seems to be between €12-13 per hour.

The thing is they can't pay carers fairly for the hard work that they do and still turn a profit, I think that the issue is privatisation of care and nurseries.
Nurseries - majority of parents could not pay more

Nursing homes - residents pay a fortune but there must be huge overheads as it does not filter down to the staff.

Yanbu - but I don't know how you can fix it while it is in the hands of private owners who expect profit

@Worldbarbie yes it's a two tiered system essentially.

1. Our subsidised public healthcare system ... everyone is entitled to it. There are some charges for a&e, gp visits etc but if you are on a low wage/over 65/suffer from certain lifetime illnesses etc then it is free.
2. You pay for private healthcare and decide whether you go public or private if and when you are ill. A lot of employers will pay health insurance policies as part of a benefit package- my employer pays for my whole families health insurance. So if I pay to go to the gp...I claim it back and I gave the money back (or a % of it) within a week. For example I ended up in hospital overnight a few months ago...it cost me nothing as I had insurance. Without insurance and a medical card it would have cost me €80 but they don't demand you pay it upfront and you can make a payment plan if you want.

Also I must point out that as it is subsidised that a person will only be charged a max of €800 per year...if you don't have a med card or insurance.So it's not like the USA where the bills keep mounting.

@scubadub thanks for the info. I think it’s excellent that there’s a maximum limit so your bills don’t spiral too big.

But as long as people are prepared to work for such low pay, it will continue.

Not everyone has a choice about the work they have to do. I count myself lucky that I do.