To think NMW is not enough?

[Ilovegreentomatoes]

Considering most of the care industry has basically had to continue to run as normal during this pandemic because we are an essential sector why is it seen as acceptable for care workers, nursery workers to still be on NMW?.
The government know how invaluable our services are but we are still bottom of the pile for pay, benefits etc.
Its disgusting that we don't get sick pay either but that's a whole different thread.
AIBU to think that all NMW should be at least £10 + an hour and sick pay mandatory for all professions. More needs to be done to address this but it always seems to be swept under the carpet.

Thenextchapter I agree. We have eighteen year olds thrown in at the deep end with one days training and expected to deal with people who are dying, people who are very medically complex, people with severe dementia, people with things such as stoma bags and grade four pressure sores requiring a vacuum pump. It's terrifying.

It’s really terrible. But care homes and child care are such expensive services. If NMW went up, many women might be forced into unpaid care roles at home due to the unaffordable childcare/care for elderly relatives. Are they not both private sector services ?

Well it's a minimum wage, the legally protected absolute minimum that anyone should be paid in this country.

Nothing to stop employers paying more, nothing to stop people leaving and applying for jobs with a fairer wage.

While an employer can advertise a job on nmw and get ten applicants, why would they pay more? I wouldn't if it was my business.

@lostandforgotten

And we still have families demanding more and more of us and the care home owners cramming more and more beds into every available space. We have had people's children putting there own health at risk to volunteer to work for us so they can still see there elderly parents, one even got a job as a cleaner. We didn't even get as much as a Christmas card or a thank you from the owners of the home despite keeping it going through a pandemic.

That’s absolutely appalling behaviour from the owners.

Rawlikesushi, so you would want someone looking after your mum at the end of her life, washing and dressing her and comforting her in your absence to be paid barely enough to even survive on whilst the owner of the home rakes it in? Right.

@lostandforgotten can you apply as a HCA for the NHS. You can earn nearly working 2 nights shifts a week in a hospital.

@Treacletoots

Agree that sick pay should be mandatory, although it sort of is already. Do you mean sick pay at the same rate as your usual salary? Again I agree, people shouldn't be worried about being ill, but unfortunately we already seem to have a work culture that encourages people to work even if they're ill, which I hope will not ensure once we come out of this covid nightmare.

However people are paid for the skills they have, not necessarily how important they are at any given time. Because cleaning and care roles are seen as low skilled, they pay less. It's capitalism at its finest and keeps the working class in their place

Buy saying that, if you'd worked hard to gain skills, qualifications or just experience in a technical role, wouldn't you expect to be paid more for that? Of course you would.

Trouble with sick pay is that the employer now had to bear the full cost since the rules were changed a few years ago. Prior to that, smaller employers could claim sick pay back from HMRC, and prior to that, even bigger employers could claim it back.

So over many years, the burden of statutory sick pay has been moved from the Government down to the employer. That's why lots of employers try to bully workers into work despite being ill, and why lots of firms prefer to employ workers on a self employed or zero hours basis so that they don't have to pay sick pay.

We need to increase sick pay AND change the system so that it's paid by the government, not the employer. That would be a good start to encouraging sick people to stay home, and encourage firms to take staff on, again, as permanent employees.

Successive governments have heaped the burdens of costs etc on to the employers, which is why so many employers now use self employed or zero hours workers. It's a classic case of "employment rights" actually making things worse for the workers.

@Baycob

It’s really terrible. But care homes and child care are such expensive services. If NMW went up, many women might be forced into unpaid care roles at home due to the unaffordable childcare/care for elderly relatives. Are they not both private sector services ?

Indeed! childcare needs to be affordable too. I'm looking at employing a nanny due to our specific situation with our youngest and I don't think I'll manage to go further than 12pounds per hour. Which I understand is decent enough in my area thankfully. Otherwise I'll have to stop working instead... It's a difficult balance. Raising the NMW would have a lot of consequences on many small businesses. I work with a lot of small business owners and most of them aren't lining up their pockets and couldn't afford a bit jump in NMW... (without increasing similarly the services they provide which would then become unaffordable etc). Not easy

This government and any others who support Brexit are unlikely to do anything other than small cosmetic changes, because they support deregulation precisely to keep wages down for as many people as possible, except themselves of course.

@Baycob

It’s really terrible. But care homes and child care are such expensive services. If NMW went up, many women might be forced into unpaid care roles at home due to the unaffordable childcare/care for elderly relatives. Are they not both private sector services ?

Smaller, privately owned, care homes and nurseries have been closing at a high rate for many years due to the costs of running them.

The only ones profitable are the huge ones, usually national firms, often run by hedge funds, sometimes foreign owned not paying their "fair share" of UK tax on the profits.

The government needs to tackle that in some way as it is better for the local economy to have smaller, locally owned, homes, as they're more likely to pay their taxes, rather than international hedge funds who syphon off the profits to tax havens.

Have a read of the Precariat by Guy Standring. This is all by design. Business wants a large pool of low paid labour with limited employment rights (it's not just NMW being low but the prevalence of 0 hours contracts too). This means that business can take on staff and let them go depending on business need and if there is an over supply of labour, the people providing that labour won't do anything troublesome like join a union and fight for higher pay and more employment rights. Why do you think the government allowed the immigration of so much low skilled labour for so long?

The NHS isn't much better to be honest to those suggesting care workers look into NHS HCA roles. I'm a band 2 and it's £9.03/hour at the bottom of the band, I'm very much looking forward to hitting 2 years and getting my increment up to the heady heights of £9.93/hour!

I agree with you.

YANBU. Anyone who has ever done caring for family even for a short period knows just how hard those in the care industry work. The wage is too low and the fact that some don't get paid for travel time between visits is criminal.

I agree. Its also all very well saying individuals can go and do something different but ultimately someone will be doing that role.

Yes I agree. I'm a nursery nurse on £8.80 per hour. Those few extra pence over the minimum wage reflect 15 years experience, mostly within the same nursery 🙄

We're suddenly very important, must stay open, stability for young children, allow parents to work to keep the country running blah blah blah. Still not important enough to be paid properly OR to have a safe working environment.

Don't even get me started on nurseries being allowed open when schools are allowed to shut.Another example of how low down on the chain we are.

We are just an afterthought not valid or paid enough to have our concerns listened to.

The same way care staff were last in the pile to get ppe.

@peak2021

This government and any others who support Brexit are unlikely to do anything other than small cosmetic changes, because they support deregulation precisely to keep wages down for as many people as possible, except themselves of course.

It's nothing to do with Brexit even though you you would like it to be. There's always at least one person that needs to mention Brexit at every opportunity.

Yes the blame lies with Government, but started with the Labour one dishing out Family credit, Tax Credits and then Universal Credits. What incentive does an employer have to pay decent wages, when they know that the government will top up employees' wages?

Employers have got away with relying on cheap labour, for far too long because they have no incentive to change.

Change the benefits system while at the same time making all employers pay a living wage to their staff.

any others who support Brexit

You do realise that many people voted Brexit because they were sick of fighting for jobs, sick of their employment rights being eroded, sick of rates of pay being pushed down, sick of fighting for medical appointments, sick of fighting for social housing? Businesses loved freedom of movement because it gave them a large pool of cheap labour to exploit. You may find that many on the old left are pro Brexit because of this.

Why settle at £10 an hour? Why not £30 or £40 or maybe more?

People who need care deserve stability of staffing, and to be cared for by people who want to be there and have the skills and aptitude for the role. Not by desperate, exhausted people who are out of their depth, resent them, and frequently change because staff jump ship at the earliest opportunity.

People delivering care deserve safe and healthy working conditions and remuneration that reflects what an important role they undertake.

Yes the blame lies with Government, but started with the Labour one dishing out Family credit, Tax Credits and then Universal Credits.

Universal Credit was created by the Conservative party.

Yep totally agree, shocking how underpaid and under values childcare professionals are, should be paid £15 a hour, at least.