Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this isn’t murder

271 replies

AldiAisleofCrap · 13/01/2021 21:30

AIBU to think this is really wrong. In America four teenagers break into a house , the home owner fires a gun and one teenager dies. The boys age 17 are charged with murder and sentenced to 55 years in prison.
The judge said done one has to be held responsible but surely the teen who is dead is responsible for his own actions.

OP posts:
SchrodingersImmigrant · 14/01/2021 12:07

I think you'd be charged with using unreasonable force.
Very much depends on a situation.
Bludgeoned them? Yeah.
Hit once because she was scared for herself? Highly doubt it.

Quite frankly, if someone comes into my house uninvited, I consider it a threat to my person and would act accordingly.

Gwenhwyfar · 14/01/2021 12:09

"The idea that “someone died, so someone else has to pay” is a ludicrous basis for a “justice” system. "

Yes, it's a bit like going after a relative of someone who killed your friend or something. Mediaeval.

DynamoKev · 14/01/2021 12:09

@mumnowformerrockstar

I wish we had similar laws here. It would be a huge deterrent for crime.
No it wouldn't.
Gwenhwyfar · 14/01/2021 12:10

"Quite frankly, if someone comes into my house uninvited, I consider it a threat to my person and would act accordingly."

It isn't necessarily a threat to you though. You should evaluate each situation.

goingtosnow · 14/01/2021 12:10

@LimitIsUp

Wow - that doesn't sit well with me. Personally think the home owner should be investigated for manslaughter (unless the teens were tooled up?)
So you should not protect your home or your family from burglars in any way??
Gwenhwyfar · 14/01/2021 12:12

@Abouttimemum

And the people committing crimes do want to commit crimes otherwise they wouldn’t do it. Plenty of other lifestyle options.
Not that many other options for people who've already got a criminal record.
Gwenhwyfar · 14/01/2021 12:13

"The general idea is that their actions led to a death. People who want to commit crimes should think about it in advance. They don't have to do it."

That's ridiculous. Any action could lead to a death.

Gwenhwyfar · 14/01/2021 12:16

"So you should not protect your home or your family from burglars in any way??"

I think people are more important than things so yes, you shouldn't attack people who are stealing from you.
You can attack people in self-defence.
You can obviously protect your home with burglar alarms and the like.

Wtfdidwedo · 14/01/2021 12:18

@Gwenhwyfar

"The general idea is that their actions led to a death. People who want to commit crimes should think about it in advance. They don't have to do it."

That's ridiculous. Any action could lead to a death.

Felony murder normally only relates to a specific list of crimes so I think the idea is that criminals should reasonably expect there to be a chance someone could be seriously harmed or killed if they undertake a burglary etc even if that wasn't their intention from the outset. That's my understanding of it anyway.
SchrodingersImmigrant · 14/01/2021 12:18

It isn't necessarily a threat to you though. You should evaluate each situation.

Yes. 4 men ahead of me and I have time to evaluate the situation🙄 I think quite some number if you has very naive outlook on this.

chomalungma · 14/01/2021 12:21

Many people on here seem to have no issue with the fact that the teenagers who were with the person who got shot dead by the houseowner have been jailed for 55 years.

I struggle with that.

It seems that some people can't separate the wanting to defend yourself and your property and the fact that these 4 people have been sentenced to a 55 year sentence.

They are 2 separate issues.

In the 'old days' people could get hung for quite minor crimes - so they decided to kill the person they were burgling instead of just committing a burglary. Why leave a witness?

I wonder if this sentence will encourage people who commit crimes and where something has happened to ensure no witnesses are left?

PinkPandaBear · 14/01/2021 12:21

The homeowner is a murderer. The teens should be charged with burglary. The US is weird.

chomalungma · 14/01/2021 12:22

@SchrodingersImmigrant

It isn't necessarily a threat to you though. You should evaluate each situation.

Yes. 4 men ahead of me and I have time to evaluate the situation🙄 I think quite some number if you has very naive outlook on this.

If 4 people appear and you pull out a gun, you had better hope that all 4 of them aren't armed...
Hoppinggreen · 14/01/2021 12:22

In some states I believe you can be guilty of murder just by being there or in some cases just being involved
In one of those programmes where Piers Morgan interviews female killers he spoke to a young woman who was doing life for murder and her only involvement had been to call the victim and ask him to meet her. 2 other people met him, tried to rob him and he ended up dead. Under the law of the State she was in she was guilty of murder.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 14/01/2021 12:26

If 4 people appear and you pull out a gun, you had better hope that all 4 of them aren't armed...

Wouldn't have to if parents actually made their kids into better members of society not fucking burglars

Hoppinggreen · 14/01/2021 12:27

Also, in America lots of people have guns at home
Given that if you break into someone’s house I think it’s a pretty good possibility you could get shot. If you know that and do it anyway then it’s your own fault

Hoiking · 14/01/2021 12:29

Yeah, if anyone is caught breaking into my house, they are being dealt with in whatever method comes to hand. Live by the sword.....

BillMasen · 14/01/2021 12:31

@PrincessFiorimonde

I am absolutely amazed that there are people who think a 55 -year sentence is appropriate in these circumstances.
I think there are a lot of people saying a conviction for murder is appropriate. Fewer (if any) saying the sentence is.

Separate the two

Hazelnutlatteplease · 14/01/2021 12:31

It's a better way round than charging the home owner of manslaughter

chomalungma · 14/01/2021 12:34

think there are a lot of people saying a conviction for murder is appropriate. Fewer (if any) saying the sentence is

I am not sure on that - looking at what's been written.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 14/01/2021 12:34

*I think there are a lot of people saying a conviction for murder is appropriate. Fewer (if any) saying the sentence is.

Separate the two*

Exactly. There should be responsibility, but 55 years is ott

SchrodingersImmigrant · 14/01/2021 12:35

Actually WAS ott

chomalungma · 14/01/2021 12:35

[quote ProfessorSlocombe]www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/09/joint-enterprise-law-uk-how-do-11-people-go-to-jail-for-one-murder[/quote]
That's a depressing read.

goose1964 · 14/01/2021 12:36

It's just to show that people being armed is not a great idea.

Swipe left for the next trending thread