To think mandatory video calls is a ridiculous request?

[Lizzie523]

After nearly a year of working from home our manager has requested we all turn our cameras on for every daily team meeting (which is every day).

I can't say what my colleagues reasons are for turning theirs off some days, but I tend to do it on days my mental health isnt great or I've had a terribly sleepless night due to the stress of this whole situation. Probably once or twice a week. They are arguing we should appear like we were in the office - but in the office we got on with our work and were not having a daily meeting or sitting in front of all our co workers faces.

The meetings are usually pointless check ins where no one has a thing to say. It is always the same extroverts talking about personal stuff. The fact the videos on is now mandatory because they say so has annoyed me quite a bit. AIBU?

And I can tell you this...I have friends who have been working from home for months now, and tell me that they have started "dressing for work" every day, because looking professional makes them feel professional, and they get more accomplished.

I'm the opposite, I feel I get more accomplished if I'm comfortable. It's a waste of time to get dressed up if I'm going to be sitting in my living room! I've also decided I'll probably never wear make up to work again, so a lot of money saved there!

I'm the opposite, I feel I get more accomplished if I'm comfortable

My smarter clothes are not uncomfortable.

Mine aren’t uncomfortable* but they’re not as comfortable as leggings and a t shirt and my slippers!

*well they weren’t, but they might be a bit more snug now!

It's being on camera I don't like
That sums it up really! I don't like something do I shouldn't be made to and if you do, you're horrible person. It really is so childlike.

We keep hearing around the pushes but if a boss who was fine with cameras off for months suddenly makes it mandatory, it is because the staff were taking the piss.

It's all well to pretend that everybody is dedicated to their jobs and work not just as hard compared to when they are in the office but even harder when we know that in truth, there is a lot more doing lots of everything but work.

It is indeed sad that after months of being ok, he felt the need to make cameras on mandatory.

Making sure employees know your door is always open, one-to-one catch-ups, picking up on signs that someone is struggling (I don't mean not using their camera, unless that's unusual for them!) - all good. Insisting that they do things that are unnecessary and they are uncomfortable with because you think it's good for them, not listening to what they're saying, telling them what they're really troubled by, thinking that a group video call is the best place to share serious problems, believing yourself capable of identifying MH problems via video, thinking you're entitled to know all about an employee's health issues..! Awful.

This.

A good manager doesn’t ascertain whether someone is ok, based on whether they have their camera on or not.

Not to mention, as a previous PP has said, anyone can put on a show of being fine on a team video call. So using that as your main tool to check on someone’s engagement levels or to see if they seem ok, is frankly just poor management.

I'm amazed at the amount of people who expect to be paid but don't want to comply with employer requirements.

People are employed to do a job, abs to do that in the way requested by their employer.

Providing an employer isn't being genuinely unreasonable they should be able to expect people to do as they are asked, and not to retain employees who won't do as they are requested.

If you want to do things your own way then you need to be self employed.

Sensible post @NiceGerbil - but I noticed you are also in IT so I am starting to think the industry works quite, quite differently to many (most?) others.

Probably because it does attract quiter types, typically. It also is more likely to be led by younger, more irreverent leaders because of the nature of start-ups and their potential successes - some of those leaders have really shaken up typical practices, doing things like letting employees choose their own job titles, take as many holiday days a year as they like, choose their own managers, set their own salaries etc (all real life examples). Obviously, not many companies go that far but the trickle effect is seen all the way through, to varying degrees.

There is competition for skills so people with those skills will just up and leave if the company's working practices don't suit them - often picking up a salary incease on the way. All of this changes the dynamic of the relationship between employees and employers in a way that may not happen in other industries.

It's also an industry that tends to do well in 'great places to work' type assessments and I think that's because employer focus tends to be on trying to find ways to convince employees to stay with them, rather than move for more £.

Thank goodness we don’t have video capability. I had a two hour call yesterday in my PJs, with a lovely cold sore and flicked through a magazine.

I think camera on all day, outside of calls is hugely intrusive and untrusting.
I think daily calls with a big team are usually wasteful and wouldn’t expect cameras on then.
I think in large meetings, where it’s about delivering information, that cameras aren’t necessary as it’s screen sharing.
I think once a week it’s not unreasonable for managers to require camera on for a conversation as part of a wider check in. Body language is important. That doesn’t make you a counsellor or social worker - it makes you a reasonable manager who wants to be proactive in identifying emerging problems.

@dontdisturbmenow - your comment that there are 'in truth ... a lot more' people who use wfh as an opportunity to do as little as possible than those who are as or more conscientious than in an office says everything about your attitude re this subject.

You do not 'know' this at all. You're presenting it as unarguable fact, but it's just an assertion based on your own fixed and very negative views about people, how they work and what motivates them. In my experience most people can motivate themselves without the boss cracking the whip. Being trusted and given reasonable latitude in how you do your work actually tends to motivate.

I think I've missed where the op says the reason for the camera change is because people couldn't be trusted.

If you were in the office you would be in full view of others. It is not unreasonable for your employer to ask you to have camera on for a catch up meeting each day. I have these meetings all of the time and it is no more draining than a face to face meeting. In fact wfh is easier for many as no commute to deal with so most gain some time. If your manager can't see you how can they know if you are paying attention to your work or fiddling on your phone or dealing with a child? You say many don't contribute. Your manager should make a point of asking where you are with your current work load and is there anything you think you will complete today. Some tasks run over several days and weeks and it helps everyone if each person has some idea of where others are and particularly if they are waiting upon another person to do their task before they can start work on something. Face to face meetings help mental health as give employees the chance to see colleagues so feel less isolated. My dh is wfh at the moment and his organisation requires him to have an online briefing for 30 mis every morning but also other focused meetings and even a virtual meet once every 2 weeks where they make a lunch and eat at their desk at home while chatting and catching up with colleagues. Some employees live alone and can't go out as nothing is open so the only human contact they are having with others at the moment is a face on the other end of a screen. That should not be taken away from them by people who just can't be bothered to show their face. Employers have a duty of care to these people not to make them feel isolated.

I have one friend who's been WFH and has been painting her house, power washing her back/front drive etc etc.

I'd be worried about my bloody job if I had time to do things like that during working hours - maybe having a few more coffees or catching the news but seriously it's quite ridiculous.

Gosh so many comments here that there’s probably not point in adding mine!

As someone who leads the occasional zoom, it’s really weird and disconcerting speaking to people with cameras off. It’s not like a phone call because mute is in too. It’s like talking to no one.

So I get that having your camera off is preferable sometimes - I don’t like staring at my face when I’m in a meeting at all - but it’s really inhuman to interact with a blank screen.

You’ve got my sympathy, but so does your manager!

You do not 'know' this at all. You're presenting it as unarguable fact, but it's just an assertion based on your own fixed and very negative views about people, how they work and what motivates them
Of course I don't know, but it's natural instinct. The OP above acknowledge she flicks through magazine whilst on a professional call. How is this acceptable, yet clearly seem to think it's ok and she is unlikely to be the only one.

The one thing that all who screaming that OP's manager is unfair are opting to convenient ignore is that it didn't start like this. It has it been made mandatory recently, so they were clearly happy to trust their team and something must have happened to break that trust.

It's not just up to a manager to motivate their team,people have to take self-respinsibimity too but with the constant excuses to defy authority it does get tedious.

People are employed to do a job, abs to do that in the way requested by their employer
Don't be silly, that makes an employer controlling and bullying!

I have one friend who's been WFH and has been painting her house, power washing her back/front drive etc etc
That just doesn't happen in MN world

I have one friend who's been WFH and has been painting her house, power washing her back/front drive etc

And do you think that a cameras on half hour meeting everyday would change that?

@alienspiderbee

I have one friend who's been WFH and has been painting her house, power washing her back/front drive etc

And do you think that a cameras on half hour meeting everyday would change that?

Yes it would help they can all see how nicely she's redecorated - updates everyday.

Yes it would help they can all see how nicely she's redecorated - updates everyday

@Greywall are you Katie Hopkins?

As someone who leads the occasional zoom, it’s really weird and disconcerting speaking to people with cameras off. It’s not like a phone call because mute is in too. It’s like talking to no one.

I agree, I am currently doing some development courses as part of my work role and they're having to be done over Teams because people cant travel.

There was one person last week who didnt have video and it was always really stilted whenever we had a break in discussion as we couldn't tell if she was back (eg we'd have some case studies to read so the tutor would give us 10 mins to go through them and then we'd come back to discuss - everyone else would be visible so you knew they were there, even on mute) so the tutor was constantly asking her to actively let us know she was there, whereas he could just see the rest of us, because otherwise she could literally have not been there and nobody would have known.

Also because it was discussion, if we wanted to participate we could make a visual cue - hand raised to add a point/nod or shake head in agreement or disagreement to an answer etc which that colleague couldnt so it was hard for her to fully engage with the group as we could all communicate directly in a way she could not.

Yes it would help they can all see how nicely she's redecorated - updates everyday.

What will that prove?! My manager commented on my newly decorated living room. DH had nothing else to do in the first lockdown so he decorated the living room while I worked.

We don't insist, but I have twice asked the young woman who always leaves her camera off whether she needs the office to buy her a better router or a Wi-Fi booster.

So what kind of "not insisting" is that?

Who knew that the manager's comments on this thread would so perfectly illustrate Theory Y vs Theory X management styles. Douglas McGregor would be impressed.

It's pretty clear that those in the Theory Y camp or those managed by Theory Y managers are never going to convince the Theory X managers. Just saying...

Anyhow, here's a Forbes article that sums up the differences nicely.

www.forbes.com/sites/forbescoachescouncil/2020/10/02/seven-steps-to-eliminating-theory-x-management-for-organizational-success/

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

We don't insist, but I have twice asked the young woman who always leaves her camera off whether she needs the office to buy her a better router or a Wi-Fi booster.

So what kind of "not insisting" is that?

I have been in zoom/Teams meetings where the sheer volume of people has had my internet lagging and causing issues but as soon as I went to audio only it worked fine.

Clearly this manager is just trying to ensure that their employee is not sans camera because the work calls are too much for their internet to handle and offering to pay for the hardware to improve it.

I hate speaking to someone who can see my face but I can’t see theirs. As far as I am concerned it should be everyone or no one.