To think mandatory video calls is a ridiculous request?

[Lizzie523]

After nearly a year of working from home our manager has requested we all turn our cameras on for every daily team meeting (which is every day).

I can't say what my colleagues reasons are for turning theirs off some days, but I tend to do it on days my mental health isnt great or I've had a terribly sleepless night due to the stress of this whole situation. Probably once or twice a week. They are arguing we should appear like we were in the office - but in the office we got on with our work and were not having a daily meeting or sitting in front of all our co workers faces.

The meetings are usually pointless check ins where no one has a thing to say. It is always the same extroverts talking about personal stuff. The fact the videos on is now mandatory because they say so has annoyed me quite a bit. AIBU?

That should say my employer

@Sarahrellyboo1987

The utter ignorance and close mindedness from “managers” on this page is astounding.

You clearly have no respect for your employees or you might actually think outside the box and respect those who may have a disability, mental health condition etc that they’re not willing to share with you.

If you need to see your employees to be an effective communicator then you need additional training.

Additionally they have the right to privacy in their home. You can’t force them.

How can you expect an employer to make reasonable adjustments if you don’t disclose your condition

It doesn't have to be a 'condition'.

It should be enough for me to say "I would prefer not to go on camera, I don't feel comfortable on it." I'm clearly fortunate that the culture in my workplace is cameras off.

I don't go into work and say "I will be working from underneath the desk today". People keep making this connection, and I find it really odd. It's being on camera I don't like. I only present myself in work fully made up with hair done, and I'm not comfortable appearing without this. I'd rather not have to do it for a ten minute meeting so the boss can 'look at me'.

I also find it daft when people say "I need to see you to know how you are feeling". You do not. You will see exactly what I choose to present to you, which is by and large a relaxed look and pleasant expression that makes me look engaged, nodding along and making the right expressions. I do that in person in work to appear friendly and professional, even when I'm thinkimg "Wow, you're a daft twunt". I just can't be arsed having to do that in my house as well. Just so you can see I'm 'engaged'. Bonkers.

Manager: "I need you to go on camera so I can keep tabs on you and check your comfortable"

Employee: "I am, I would prefer not turning my camera on though as I am not comfortable with it on"

Manager: "But I need to see you or how will I know you are not comfortable?"

Employee: "I am comfortable, but I will be less so if I have to go on camera"

Manager: "But if I can't see you how will I know?"

Employee: "??"

You're*

@Fallingrain sorry but none of things mean you actually understand.

They’re legally not required to tell you about health conditions or disabilities.

You can have all the unwritten rules you like. But, that only serves to question what kind of work place you’re running. They don’t have to have their camera on.

Honestly, as a manager myself I’d hate to have someone like you for a colleague. So presumptuous and entitled.

Firstly, there’s some contributions to this debate that make me wonder if people are becoming less empathetic and less tolerant in general. It’s a sad state when we can’t recognise that some people can do a full day’s productive work without having brushed their hair first, let alone made to feel like they have to appear on camera and be cheery about it. I’m one of the “extroverts”, but I’ll let you in to a secret, it’s an act, because I can’t stand the silence and lack of engagement from some of the team and the worst ones are the furloughed ones. I think they feel guilty that they’re not contributing and some of them are struggling with MH or are just very private about sharing their home environment with colleagues. It annoys me but I do try to understand. 10 mins before meetings I quickly apply a bit of make up and get ready to be ‘bright’ & moderately cheerful (I hope I’m not ott). Two managers have thanked me for my disposition and helping generate dialogue. Last week was incredibly stressful, so I didn’t bother with the makeup, and it completely freaked out my manager because they could see my stress. My point is, that we’re all responding to the situation a bit differently, and it’s more important than ever to practise empathy and unreasonable to impose any expectations of behaviour (as long as the work is being done). Anyone not doing the work, should either be off sick, or subjected to suitable management intervention.

@beautysloth legally people don’t have to tell them.

Managers shouldn’t make people feel uncomfortable and invade their privacy just to make themselves feel better.

“I’m not comfortable having the camera on” is more than enough.

Isn’t it amazing how people used to communicate perfectly effectively without cameras? You know - through phone, email, letter etc. Shocking!!

I wouldn't regularly cover my face at work but I also wouldn't have 100 colleagues in my bedroom either - only place for a proper desk set up. So no I don't have my camera on for long meetings. Yes some interaction is lost but I have a bad back and using the laptop somewhere else isn't an option for long meetings.

Honestly, if I worked somewhere where it was expected to have it on and noticeably odd not to, I'd have it on and I wouldn't say a word.

But that's because I'm used to picking my battles with you extroverted twunts. You made me suffer open plan offices, I balance it out by taking myself off for a quiet lunch in a private corner somewhere. I can live and even thrive in your world, but it's a breath of fresh air working in a place where all kinds of people are celebrated and valued.

(I don't think all extroverts are twunts by the way, just the emotionally unintelligent/unkind/big-headed ones that are oddly active in this thread)

@sararh

Honestly, if I worked somewhere where it was expected to have it on and noticeably odd not to, I'd have it on and I wouldn't say a word.

But that's because I'm used to picking my battles with you extroverted twunts. You made me suffer open plan offices, I balance it out by taking myself off for a quiet lunch in a private corner somewhere. I can live and even thrive in your world, but it's a breath of fresh air working in a place where all kinds of people are celebrated and valued.

On this point, I always took myself off to a quiet corner on my break in another room. Near the start of lockdown I was challenged when I hadn't replied to a non urgent message for 30 mins as I must 'always be available' and 'online'.

I think not!

Wel I'm glad I posted this thread as it has been very interesting!

Valid points from both sides of things and I did post this from perspective of wanting to make the choice to occasionally turn the video off. I would also struggle if I never saw my colleagues but that isnt what im talking about. Effectively outlawing the option is just wrong imo.

There are many people here that see employees as servile little ants who should do what they're told in all circumstances regardless of their own health, depression and whatever else. Other posts behave as though an employer would be reasonable if you only told them of your struggles - sorry no, many don't care or want to hear it. No I don't need to approach my employer about my health when a day here or there without video on really helps. Having that flexibility, that's it. This is also why companies have duvet days in place now too.

We should be more compassionate to each other now than ever before. I was in back to back calls all day today and I do feel the effects of it. I actually did switch my video off for one call in the end and my immediate LM didn't comment (it is their boss that is enforcing it).

A non health related reason one colleague switches his off is because he always eats breakfast during the call. Since the new rule he does this unmuted for all of us to see and hear. Not pretty.

Some of the "need to check you're ok" stuff on here is really overbearing. It's great that employers are considering mental wellbeing, but I'm uncomfortable with what a number posts on here hint at: that managers now see themselves as social workers or counsellors to their staff, responsible for fixing them and entitled to proactively check up on them.

Making sure employees know your door is always open, one-to-one catch-ups, picking up on signs that someone is struggling (I don't mean not using their camera, unless that's unusual for them!) - all good. Insisting that they do things that are unnecessary and they are uncomfortable with because you think it's good for them, not listening to what they're saying, telling them what they're really troubled by, thinking that a group video call is the best place to share serious problems, believing yourself capable of identifying MH problems via video, thinking you're entitled to know all about an employee's health issues..! Awful.

The last one reminds me of a previous employer who found out about a medical issue I had and started wanting to 'help' me with it, despite it not having anything to do with my work and me making it clear I wasn't happy discussing it with them.

@Sarahrellyboo1987
“Honestly as a manager I’d hate to have someone like you for a colleague. So presumptuous and entitled”

I don’t really know what to say to such a personal and mean attack. I think it’s a very cruel thing to say to someone who has engaged you in a perfectly rational debate. I can say that your words have certainly affected my mental health this evening.

Not voting on this, as I can see this both ways. However, the bottom line is, if this is a requirement for work, it is a requirement for work. And you can always dress from the waist up and keep your yoga pants hidden. Thousands are doing that! Just don't forget and stand up. If you were going into the office, you wouldn't think twice about this. And I can tell you this...I have friends who have been working from home for months now, and tell me that they have started "dressing for work" every day, because looking professional makes them feel professional, and they get more accomplished.

This is daft. People are dealing with enough stress without others seeing what you look like everyday and making sure you look ok for work. We’re not going to the office, life is different and so many video calls are stressful and bad for mental health. I don’t even like being on a zoom book club call! Sorry OP and good luck.

@Mamanyt

Not voting on this, as I can see this both ways. However, the bottom line is, if this is a requirement for work, it is a requirement for work. And you can always dress from the waist up and keep your yoga pants hidden. Thousands are doing that! Just don't forget and stand up. If you were going into the office, you wouldn't think twice about this. And I can tell you this...I have friends who have been working from home for months now, and tell me that they have started "dressing for work" every day, because looking professional makes them feel professional, and they get more accomplished.

I have started "dressing for work" again. The novelty of always looking scruffy has worn off.

As you're being paid to attend the meeting, I'd say having your camera on is a fair exchange tbh

You are WFH, but you are at work. You get up, you get dressed for the office and you behave in a professional way. If you can't face putting the camera on, to do the job you are paid to do, then I would suggest you seek help.

You are only going to be seen from the waist up so pull on a baggy top or sweater to hide your nightie and get a cheap longhair wig to cover your hair and much of your face. You may not look like a model but you can be presentable for a call.

All of this really, I find it odd.

If you're a sales person or similar, then talking, being engaging, face to face is key. They're all about people and communication. My sales colleagues are camera on, always. That's their thing, that's their job. They never ever moan about others not putting camera on in wider meetings.

Because the culture in the main part of the company is different. It's an IT company and camera off is normal. I don't buy into stereotypes but when we were in the office many colleagues wore headphones and didn't enjoy talking to people because they wanted to get on with their work without disturbance.

I thought at the beginning of lockdown. When we were lucky enough to be able to work from home from the off. This is the time for the people who want peace and quiet and hate open plan offices. Turnaround on the dominance of those who would be red hot keen to give a presentation etc.

But in the end. This suits no one, if the ideas of the majority on this thread have their way.

The quiet head down people who want to quietly get on with it are like a rabbit in the headlights with loads of people on the screen.

So in the end it doesn't suit extroverts or introverts. Although those categories have been shown to be bollocks tbh!

The introverts feel exposed and stressed. The people who like to see people, the screen is a poor substitute.

I have drinks sometimes with my old drinking buddies. I feel really sad after. It was nice to see them but it's not the same. I miss them. They miss people too.

The people who need people or got something out of the in person stuff, aren't getting what drives them.

The people who like to work quietly and by themselves are even we worse off. Nowhere to hide on teams.

And onto that all the other stuff with lockdown etc. It's just not such a smart move as a manager to say cameras on all the time.

If the work is being done, why anyway? It's presenteeism under a new guise.
The time to find out how your direct reports are doing is 1-1. Not on a big call.

If someone isn't ever putting their camera on and that's not the culture then that's a cue to have a chat and check they're ok.

I'm lucky though. My industry pays fairly well and in general looks after staff. As long as the work gets done it's fine. We've, even before covid, had remote workers etc. And loads of flexibility around going to school stuff etc. As long as you do the work, it's aok.

It always surprises me to read other work conditions on here but then I pinch myself and remember I'm lucky.

Loads of jobs need you up and at em. I've done loads of jobs. The attitude of so many on here, it's your job just do it.... Is. Wasteful.

Say you have someone who is brilliant but doesn't like camera. Everyone likes and respects them. They have great ideas etc.

They're ok with a wave camera on at the beginning and then off.

Would you really shed them for that? Really???

Given the amount of time a full time worker spends at work I find it quite sad that some people are stand offish about sharing things with a manager.

I’m lucky that my workplace places a lot of value into employees well-being and I can say I manage a team of 20 I have a great relationship with, several of whom I have supported during difficult times.

It’s not about fixing anyone as I’ve said previously we are not health professionals however it is our duty as managers to support employees to do their job.

I certainly am not dressed as I would be for the office and that’s fine but again I would be concerned that turning your camera off is the tip of the iceberg. It simply can’t be the only thing required to help someone and I would consider it a red flag that things weren’t quite right for that individual. Long term that’s not addressing the real issues at play.

Mental health conditions can be long term and enduring however a lot do not last forever if the right treatment is in place. Switching the camera off when it’s required to be on is not treating anything and it is certainly not the only symptom of a health condition.

It seems minor but in the bigger picture it raises a lot of questions.

I like to see people"s faces in meetings so I can tell who's talking and see their reactions. We don't insist, but I have twice asked the young woman who always leaves her camera off whether she needs the office to buy her a better router or a Wi-Fi booster.

I know you want to hide when you are having a bad day, but maybe that's exactly why they want cameras on - so they can see how everyone is doing and support people who are struggling?

I don't think it's unreasonable of them to ask, but I think you could ask if meetings could be kept shorter.