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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think mandatory video calls is a ridiculous request?

672 replies

Lizzie523 · 12/01/2021 21:55

After nearly a year of working from home our manager has requested we all turn our cameras on for every daily team meeting (which is every day).

I can't say what my colleagues reasons are for turning theirs off some days, but I tend to do it on days my mental health isnt great or I've had a terribly sleepless night due to the stress of this whole situation. Probably once or twice a week. They are arguing we should appear like we were in the office - but in the office we got on with our work and were not having a daily meeting or sitting in front of all our co workers faces.

The meetings are usually pointless check ins where no one has a thing to say. It is always the same extroverts talking about personal stuff. The fact the videos on is now mandatory because they say so has annoyed me quite a bit. AIBU?

OP posts:
dontdisturbmenow · 14/01/2021 14:29

Thing is, "I'd rather not turn my camera on," isn't a weak excuse, nor is in invalid.It's a personal preference
I see. Does this apply to 'I'd rather not seat with colleagues, would rather have my own office' (non covid time) a personal preference?

Or I don't want to start at 9am, 10am suits me better on some days, but I won't tell which they are, it's just a personal preference.

Oh and I won't talk on the phone to customers on Tuesdays and Thursdays, it makes me uncomfortable on these days and it's a personal preference!

Some people are really taking this working from home as an opportunity for liberties they wouldn't dare to expect in normal times.

DrBlackbird · 14/01/2021 14:34

....to step up and comply rather than argue non stop about their rights and entitlements. Managers don't have time for whingers

You will do as your told!

Douglas Adams's insight seems applicable here...."It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to manage rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made manager President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

A little bit of power can really go to someones head... Wink

It's always such a relief when someone who knows how to manage actually gets hired into a management position.

alienspiderbee · 14/01/2021 14:34

Or I don't want to start at 9am, 10am suits me better on some days, but I won't tell which they are, it's just a personal preference

The above has been practice at every place I've worked for the past 15 years

unmarkedbythat · 14/01/2021 14:45

Gosh.

I wonder how any working from home was ever done competently in the days when webcams and the like were a rarity. I cannot imagine how anyone ever managed to get through a teleconference instead of a Zoom or Teams meeting.

OP, in your shoes I'd turn my camera on because you have a boss like the "because I want to see you it is necessary for me to see you" pp in this thread. It's not worth the hassle. They will be convinced it is for you to prove that it is not necessary rather for them to demonstrate why it is, and really, the amount of time and effort wasted on having this arguments with people like this is just not worth it: they enjoy the pettiness, the control they are exercising, the ridiculous false equivalences they draw (I see someone upthread pretending that not turning a camera on in a meeting is equivalent to demanding a solo office on site, for instance Hmm).

sararh · 14/01/2021 14:53

@dontdisturbmenow

Thing is, "I'd rather not turn my camera on," isn't a weak excuse, nor is in invalid.It's a personal preference I see. Does this apply to 'I'd rather not seat with colleagues, would rather have my own office' (non covid time) a personal preference?

Or I don't want to start at 9am, 10am suits me better on some days, but I won't tell which they are, it's just a personal preference.

Oh and I won't talk on the phone to customers on Tuesdays and Thursdays, it makes me uncomfortable on these days and it's a personal preference!

Some people are really taking this working from home as an opportunity for liberties they wouldn't dare to expect in normal times.

Flexible start times are becoming normalised, I'm sure you will be horrified to learn. I myself can log on anytime between 7 and 10. Shocking isn't it?

The rest are just straw men. It's like saying "Ooh, you don't want to appear on camera do you!? Well Miss Wants-to-Have-it-All, I expect you want to take a ten hour lunch break as well!! And be carried into the office on a velvet cushion!!" And it's like... no. Just the one thing that was clearly expressed.

Paanda · 14/01/2021 15:03

Can’t understand the necessity for the cameras. Our work haven’t made them compulsory. I’m in several meetings a day and usually sharing my screen so that we can agree updates and actions together. On some one to one calls I have the camera on, but on most calls it is off. It feels a bit intrusive to have someone try to force you to have your video on.

Early in the first lockdown our team manager asked our preferences around having screens on for team meetings: it was a resounding no from us all

Paanda · 14/01/2021 15:05

And I couldn’t give a flying fuck if people were sitting in their pjs with mad bed hair. It just stinks of trying to control people

dontdisturbmenow · 14/01/2021 15:15

Flexible start times are becoming normalised, I'm sure you will be horrified to learn. I myself can log on anytime between 7 and 10. Shocking isn't it?
It might be in some industries but not for many because it's not possible. And when they do, it's about agreeing on a start and finish time, not coming in whenever they feel like it on that day even when their boss ask them to be there at a certain time.

You will do as your told!
If it sadly has to come to it, of course the manager has the last word! In most cases, there is discussion and flexibility but if it comes to people taking the piss and needing to put measures in places, then yes, it does become do as you're told or go.

Or should employees be able to go on holiday when they want even when their manager are saying that can't take one particular week off?

Be able to say no to the request of calling their manager to report a day off sick because they don't want to?

I wonder how any working from home was ever done competently in the days when webcams and the like were a rarity
That's the point, it often wasn't an option because of the lack of competency. People making a fuss over the use of camera is only going to make it less likely to continue after Covid is over.

dontdisturbmenow · 14/01/2021 15:18

Our work haven’t made them compulsory
It wasn't made compulsory in OPs case for months. There must be a good reason why it suddenly became so.

LadyFlumpalot · 14/01/2021 15:19

I hate video calls. I find I concentrate much less on what is being said if I'm staring at 6 other faces and the rooms behind them as well as looking at my own ugly morning face. If it's just a blank screen I can focus on the actual words being said much easier. I was just the same in VC's when in the actual office.

Learningtobehappier · 14/01/2021 15:20

@Atrixie

I disagree. If you are working your camera should be on. Would you sit in the office with your face covered?

We have a rule that all cameras are on for all meetings and we prefer that people aren’t muted either.

"Would you sit in the office with your face covered?" GrinGrin Hahaha brilliant
BBCONEANDTWO · 14/01/2021 15:23

I think if the camera was switched on ALL the time it would feel intrusive but for meetings it should be mandatory if the chair of th meeting wants it to be.

Comtesse · 14/01/2021 15:25

Yanbu OP - some days, some meetings are cameras off and no one should mind. These old school types used to think you had to sit in the office all day to be productive - and that was bullshit too....

alienspiderbee · 14/01/2021 15:27

And when they do, it's about agreeing on a start and finish time, not coming in whenever they feel like it on that day

I've worked for 8 different organisations, all had flexible working which did literally mean turning up when you felt like it, no pre agreed start or finish times.

Shamefulcorners · 14/01/2021 15:29

I think it's fine to ask for this once or twice a week, all videos on and everyone bright eyed and bushy tailed and contributing, but every day is a ridiculous waste of time and unnecessary.

LadyFlumpalot · 14/01/2021 15:36

"We have a rule that all cameras are on for all meetings and we prefer that people aren’t muted either."

Hahaha. Hahahahaha. If you want to sit and listen to:

"MUM CAN I GO ON THE PLAYSTATION I THINK THE CAT HAS DONE A POO OW HE HIT ME I DON'T UNDERSTAND FRACTIONS CAN I FINISH WORK YET I'M HUNGRY CAN I HAVE A BISCUIT I'M THIRSTY I DON'T WANNA DO SCHOOLWORK"

Solidly for an hour I'll gladly keep my mic on. If, however, you would like to actually hear my colleague who's presenting then I'll keep my mic firmly muted.

Also, doesn't it get all echoey and crap if everyone's mics aren't muted?

Maudythebudgie · 14/01/2021 15:50

@GhostPepperTears

Not for the first time, I find I am VERY grateful that life led me into a industry and career that means I don't have to live with some of the managerial styles on here.

I feel for those that do.

Agree. It's fascinating to hear peoples reasons for being so controlling. And frightening that they are making working life hell for many.
Wheresmykimchi · 14/01/2021 15:52

@GreyWall

we are not children, we are adults So behave like one then and turn your camera on for the little insignificant meeting!Hmm
Easy.

OP has made this clear it's about mental health. There is no need to be quite so heavy handed

OP - I get it. Many of my friends are feeling the same. I don't know what the solution is. Flowers

dontdisturbmenow · 14/01/2021 15:53

I've worked for 8 different organisations, all had flexible working which did literally mean turning up when you felt like it, no pre agreed start or finish times
Good for you but it's not the norm.

It's also not the point of this discussion since your boss is happy with this arrangement that suits the business. The issue us when your boss ask for something reasonable but that you don't like and whether you should come or they should agree with everything their staff prefer just because it suits them better.

dontdisturbmenow · 14/01/2021 15:57

Agree. It's fascinating to hear peoples reasons for being so controlling. And frightening that they are making working life hell for many
And I find it fascinating how some grown ups think that their manager should cater for their tantrums.

I must have been lucky to never have such colleague. Everyone has their camera on, unless it's a technical problem and not one person in the team has moaned about it. We all agree it's much nicer to speak to a face rather than a blank screen.

EmilyEmmabob · 14/01/2021 16:00

I don't see the big deal, I find it quite rude when people don't switch their camera on.

I teach live lessons to secondary from home, I also have 2 primary school children at home. I don't like to have to manage all of this but it's a requirement because we have to have our camera on. My children know when to be quiet and we have a few systems in place which helps with noise etc. They've been amazing really.

It's ok to say you don't want to. There are a lot of reasons on here which really are more about not wanting to that not being able to. And that's ok!

But if your work require your camera to be on then it needs to be on. You shouldn't argue with policy within the workplace so I don't see how this is any different. And it really isn't any different to being face to face with your colleagues/customers.

Womencanlift · 14/01/2021 16:21

It is very evident from this thread that there are two very different styles of workplaces that are working from home. These can be split into those that are ‘operational’ i.e. call centres, processing centres, helplines etc and those that are not e.g. consultants, people that work on projects etc. This second group are more likely to have autonomy over their diary and workload

I have worked for both and I can imagine that those working in the loans processing centre I was in about 10/15 years ago are having their log in/log out times are being monitored, their cameras will likely have to be on, performance is being tracked etc.

And that is because the culture of those types of companies is like that as well as the impact to a customer if their call isn’t answered or their query processed

I now work in the second group and I can decide if my camera is on/off (manager couldn’t give a shit as they know I will come to them if I have a problem AND i get my deliverables out on time). If I want to take an hour off to do a gym class then I will in the same way I used to go to the gym during the day in the office. Tonight if I have a shit sleep I will check my diary on my phone on whether I have meeting and if I don’t or I can move it I will text my team and say I am logging in later as not feeling great. Again no issue because I control my diary and output and it’s unlikely that there will be an impact if something is slightly delayed by an hour or so

Main point of all that is that whether anything is acceptable will depend on your role and workplace.

So to those who say I will get made redundant/not promoted etc. because I don’t have my camera on then I am 100% sure that will not happen, at least not for that reason, as that is not the culture. However I can appreciate as I still know people who work in those operational teams where that is a risk they take

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 14/01/2021 16:29

I trust given the mixed views and messaging up thread so far that both employer and employee understand this is never a binary issue but always one of adapting to unforeseen circumstances beyond our control to find a workable balance between health and safety and operational productivity with adherence
and requirements to operate within applicable relevant local and multi jurisdictional HR, data and privacy laws, health and safety, equality and disability laws etc etc etc!

Possibly there may be a requirement to agree and vary the original contract of employment to reflect the material change in circumstances that are generally agreed to be unforeseen and beyond our control.

Remote digital working will possibly be ongoing by necessity but hopefully is temporary rather than permanent. In this emergency pandemic both parties should therefore adapt to find and operate within a suitable middle remote working ground.

By way of a likely scenario if you are normally office bound and share an open plan working environment you will be accustomed to being visible and being generally approachable. If you are more senior and have a private office your privacy would by default be relatively different as you work on more confidential matters etc.

What essentially matters is that employers have a duty of care and also mindful that they offer a workable temporary arrangement solution. This may include additional financial support for connectivity etc. There importantly needs to be mutual trust and appreciation to the changed circumstances.

There has to be reasonable adaptations by both parties. As an employee (in an increasingly digitally connected global marketplace) you will be mindful of how the pandemic is possibly shaping the future of the global workplace. Being entitled or not particularly cooperative etc will be a lose lose scenario to both parties. However based on necessity and reasonable grounds - team work meetings etc will as in normal circumstances, require an expectation of being at the table and ready to contribute. This will inevitably be a mixture of live video and or voice only conferencing. It would be unreasonable to expect an employer to have continued full always on surveillance type expectation of all employees as this is not ever the norm in the office. Likewise those who are camera shy or reluctant to appear as a part of a team may find trying to work at home remotely easier if you recalibrate your mindset as if at the office but without potential Covid exposure and need to travel etc. It is all about adapting your professional and productive mindset. If appropriate dress as you expect others to dress while also working at home remotely. Obviously this will vary widely for countless scenarios and reasons. Possibly some can get away with making a less or minimal effort as evidently you are not in the normal workplace environment.

The issue for the employer is naturally how to also adapt the businesses and finding a solution to minimise the challenges of a likely drop in productivity as there are these never fully mutually satisfactory temporary Covid safe work arrangements. It's all a (remote) work life balance. No employer is interested in your personal space and life as the video camera is only intended to capture your work and productivity as and when required. No one is interested in your screen appearance as only the actual work is important not so much how you or others look at home compared to the office! It's all about mutual balance, compromise and expectations!

Finally I believe many would understand that this may well be all done not just remotely at home - but also incorporating temporary home schooling challenges too as both employer and employee will be facing similar logistical issues daily.

Working from home used to be a senior trusted staff only perk but now everyone can play the game nicely!

Good luck all and remember just relax and smile when on those pesky but hopefully occasional video calls. Ensure the children or dog etc is temporary out of view! We all seen the embarrassing live on air TV interview blunders!

dontdisturbmenow · 14/01/2021 17:01

@Womencanlift, you make good points about the type of roles, but again, the issue is not what roles justifies it more than others but the fact that it is something that is being made mandatory by your boss.

As you say, your role and the culture of your environment means that your manager isn't bothered.

In the instance if OP, her manager IS bothered and made it mandatory months after working from home became the norm.

Why would he make it mandatory all of us sudden unless he had good reasons to think that people not turning in had a negative impact on the team, business, culture?

There are many things I didn't agree with my managers in my career. One was the insistence that one member of the team stayed until 5pm even though nothing at all ever happened after 4pm and all 3 wished to work from 7:30 to 4pm, but that 2as his decision,he was the boss, that was it.

It would have crossed my mind to go at 4pm anyway and then tell him that his requirement was ridiculous.

Seasaltyhair · 14/01/2021 17:06

@Womencanlift

It is very evident from this thread that there are two very different styles of workplaces that are working from home. These can be split into those that are ‘operational’ i.e. call centres, processing centres, helplines etc and those that are not e.g. consultants, people that work on projects etc. This second group are more likely to have autonomy over their diary and workload

I have worked for both and I can imagine that those working in the loans processing centre I was in about 10/15 years ago are having their log in/log out times are being monitored, their cameras will likely have to be on, performance is being tracked etc.

And that is because the culture of those types of companies is like that as well as the impact to a customer if their call isn’t answered or their query processed

I now work in the second group and I can decide if my camera is on/off (manager couldn’t give a shit as they know I will come to them if I have a problem AND i get my deliverables out on time). If I want to take an hour off to do a gym class then I will in the same way I used to go to the gym during the day in the office. Tonight if I have a shit sleep I will check my diary on my phone on whether I have meeting and if I don’t or I can move it I will text my team and say I am logging in later as not feeling great. Again no issue because I control my diary and output and it’s unlikely that there will be an impact if something is slightly delayed by an hour or so

Main point of all that is that whether anything is acceptable will depend on your role and workplace.

So to those who say I will get made redundant/not promoted etc. because I don’t have my camera on then I am 100% sure that will not happen, at least not for that reason, as that is not the culture. However I can appreciate as I still know people who work in those operational teams where that is a risk they take

Your spot on.
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