To think mandatory video calls is a ridiculous request?

[Lizzie523]

After nearly a year of working from home our manager has requested we all turn our cameras on for every daily team meeting (which is every day).

I can't say what my colleagues reasons are for turning theirs off some days, but I tend to do it on days my mental health isnt great or I've had a terribly sleepless night due to the stress of this whole situation. Probably once or twice a week. They are arguing we should appear like we were in the office - but in the office we got on with our work and were not having a daily meeting or sitting in front of all our co workers faces.

The meetings are usually pointless check ins where no one has a thing to say. It is always the same extroverts talking about personal stuff. The fact the videos on is now mandatory because they say so has annoyed me quite a bit. AIBU?

@Worst

It’s bad business psychology to insist on cameras being on, and may also have data privacy and human rights implications.

Plenty of studies now show that people feel more exposed and vulnerable on camera and they shouldn’t be subjected to it. Zoom fatigue is real!

Good practice / business etiquette is to build a workplace culture of encouraging people to turn on their camera for small amounts of social interaction but not expect it for a whole meeting, and certainly not for multiple back to back calls.

So people might join with cameras on for the chitchat that happens while others are joining, then turn off while something is being presented. Or have cameras on for a 1:1 or virtual coffee, but not for a team meeting.

Another good practice is to make informal interactions intentional but not arduous. Arrange coffee catch ups. Set aside the first and last 5 minutes of an hour long meeting for informal interaction etc. Don’t have painful 3 hrs long quiz nights.

(Source - I advise companies on this kind of thing for a living!)

I agree with all of this too.

You could also bring the data protection guidelines in if you like. This could be seen as an invasion of your privacy in your home, your HR department wouldn't give your address out to coworkers as its against the law, whats to stop someone from seeing out of your window while you're on a call and realising where you live, thus endangering your privacy, if they want to make your life hard, you can make theirs 10x harder.

I can't believe how many people are saying they couldn't possibly do a meeting without a camera?!! I can't imagine putting cameras on.

Teams calls were a regular thing for us before covid as we work with people all over the country. We didn't use cameras then so don't now. Before teams we dialled in on a desk phone. No option for cameras there and worked just fine.

As a manager you should be well aware of GDPR guidelines, you can request that staff have their cameras on as it is YOUR preference but you cannot enforce this nor can you discriminate against the staff that do that want their cameras on.
What some managers fail to understand is you are not in the office you are WFH, why should staff feel like their privacy is being invaded in their safe space because their manager is on a power trip? Not to mention the safeguarding matter of schools being closed so everyone's kids are at home, your staff don't want their childrens privacy violated just because you want to give it the big "I am".

So glad to see some sensible comments in the last few posts. When I was reading the beginning of the thread it was baffling and I can only assume that much of it was written by people very unfamiliar with remote working practices, employment law, or even basic management skills!

I would hate to have to do this. A friend works for the Council and her boss insists on zoom sometimes I think it’s really impersonal... next thing you know her boss is interested in her wall paper and asking to have a look!

@GreyWall

It is actually distressing for some to be on camera

But perfectly acceptable for teachers hey?

Along with no masks in classrooms.... FFS

Teachers moaning again, just stop because I think the whole country has got on with it unlike you moaning entitled snowflakes.

@Broads93

As a manager you should be well aware of GDPR guidelines, you can request that staff have their cameras on as it is YOUR preference but you cannot enforce this nor can you discriminate against the staff that do that want their cameras on. What some managers fail to understand is you are not in the office you are WFH, why should staff feel like their privacy is being invaded in their safe space because their manager is on a power trip? Not to mention the safeguarding matter of schools being closed so everyone's kids are at home, your staff don't want their childrens privacy violated just because you want to give it the big "I am".

Very well said! I too was baffled by all these managers saying they insist on it. Way to make people feel uncomfortable.

Would anyone who works in work well being , Gdpr or whatever the equivalent is now, or anything similar be able to put some links up that link to any employment law / privacy rights / studies/ journals just anything I could reference regarding this to my work place?
I'm at an all dayer zoom meeting place and if I can use evidence this shouldn't be allowed or insisted on I can forward this in and perhaps end it!?
I don't have a problem with camera on for actual meetings but it is weirdly off putting being on it all day and so pointless.

@ragnorocks

Would anyone who works in work well being , Gdpr or whatever the equivalent is now, or anything similar be able to put some links up that link to any employment law / privacy rights / studies/ journals just anything I could reference regarding this to my work place? I'm at an all dayer zoom meeting place and if I can use evidence this shouldn't be allowed or insisted on I can forward this in and perhaps end it!? I don't have a problem with camera on for actual meetings but it is weirdly off putting being on it all day and so pointless.

Whilst I can't see the point in having them on outside of meetings, I will look forward eagerly to the links as well. I'll lay you a bet though - you won't get any. It's terribly "helpful" that people voice their opinions and claim the law says xy and z. Anyone who actually knows the law though, knows that it says no such thing.

Yes that's what I'm wary of , that it just doesn't exist in solid this allowed / not allowed or even best practice. I guess in time there might be employment tribunals or laws relating / more concrete hr guidance but this is so new on such a mass scale. There needs to be a proven need for it by employers I think though....

I find it really odd all these people who find it rude not to have the camera on. I can only assume they have never really teleworked until lock down.

I've had 15 years of it. We've only recently switched to having cameras on and that's mainly so we can see a friendly face. We will often switch cameras off once the meeting starts properly.

Most of my meetings are working meetings so I will be editing a document rather than a talking shop so I will be camera off. I've lost access to both the computer room and the dining room table so the laptop will be on my knees with the camera at bust level. I could tilt the screen but that would give a lovely bottom up view of my double chins, so professional!

Most people are not working in an home office environment while the rest of the household are out- they are struggling for work space and bandwidth.

It's not like being in the office. Firstly you don't see yourself. It would be unusual to have someone in your personal space to give the same view as a laptop camera. The point about not being able to make eye contact is an interesting one and I wonder if it is one reason I struggle with camera on.

Also backgrounds don't work for everyone. I turn into the invisible woman with part of my face or glasses intermittently looming into view (I have background envy)

I think the insistence on cameras on is poor management. Fair enough, you've not been trained, remote management is a skill set and this is an unusual time.

My husband works for a big multi-national with multi national teams. He spends a good chunk of the day in project meetings with people in other countries. His organisation doesn't have cameras on yet he has been perfectly well managed by people who he might only normally see once or twice a year.

As for those of you who insist on professional standards I hope you have performed all the H&S checks and provided desks/chairs and such like which homeworkers are entitled to. (It's a ball ache, we looked into it for my husband to formally be a home worker but we couldn't make the home office standards.)

Or you can acknowledge we are in a pandemic and we are in an emergency situation and perhaps cut people a bit of slack.

@dolorsit 👏👏👏

Meant to add that was for your final paragraph. This is not a normal situation and total agree people just need to do what makes them survive and get through the day not what some jumped up manager wants

*and the space I work from is also a space used for other parts of my life which means there's an exercise bike behind me, bras drying on the radiator and my personal weekly to do lists posted on the wall all of which would be visible if I turned my laptop camera on and I'd be very annoyed if I had to reorganise those things because bosses insisted on every conversation including video"
FGS, just move your bras to another radiators! Cover your weekly personal.lust or move it to another wall.

The excuses people are coming with are beyond belief! It's not surprised bosses loses patience. It's so akin to kids' excuses to not do their homework!

Or you can acknowledge we are in a pandemic and we are in an emergency situation and perhaps cut people a bit of slack
And there is a lot that is being cut, but pandemic and home working doesn't suddenly become staff get todecide how the business should be run.

I can only assume they have never really teleworked until lock down.

What, phone calls?

This is not a normal situation and total agree people just need to do what makes them survive and get through the day not what some jumped up manager wants
What makes them survive is keeping their job after the pandemic is over. Those who have shown attitude, insubordination, unwillingness to cooperate might find that their bosses will have much time and attention to give them when things are back to normal.

Of course they'll cry of unfairness and bullying. Some people are just never happy I less they get everything just how they want it.

@dontdisturbmenow

This is not a normal situation and total agree people just need to do what makes them survive and get through the day not what some jumped up manager wants What makes them survive is keeping their job after the pandemic is over. Those who have shown attitude, insubordination, unwillingness to cooperate might find that their bosses will have much time and attention to give them when things are back to normal.

Of course they'll cry of unfairness and bullying. Some people are just never happy I less they get everything just how they want it.

That’s an important point. If it comes to redundancies, pay rises, promotion and even deciding who would be allowed to continue WFH arrangements when things are back to normal, I suspect people who refuse to put their camera on despite their team requesting it, will not be getting the outcome they want. Saying you haven’t done your hair/make up or you’re in your pyjamas or it’s YOUR home, seems bizarre to me. If you’re getting paid and your company want a meeting where they can see everyone, then you get dressed and turn your camera on.

@Circumlocutious

For me, being on a camera is very different to being in the office. In the office there were about 40 of us in a large room, each focused on his/her own work and separated by screens: I was very rarely watched or observed, aside from the occasional 5-10 minute chat with a colleague next to me.

I don’t mind video meetings here and there, but my current employer is trying to get everyone to have their cameras on all the time during the workday which is just batshit to me.

Wtf!?!? Asking staff to be on camera all day is some seriously fucked up shit! Who do these people think they are!?! Agree that being on camera is different to being in a meeting in person, you can't actually make eye contact with your work buddies when that certain someone is droning on 🤣. And, as if you can tell how im doing from a video call! You'll get the version of me you want to see, which tells you sfa about how im actually doing. It's all artifice ... gawd, imagine if we could actually focus on actual meaningful work instead of all this bullshit.

Some people are just never happy I less they get everything just how they want it.

What's the saying: reasonable man [and women] adjust themsleves to fit in with the world; unreasonable men expect the world to adjust itself to fit in with them - therefore, progress is only made by unreasonable men.

I paraphrase but the sentiment remains true. Where people demand the world fits in to suit them, sometimes progress is the result.

I don't think wanting work to be just how you like it is such a terrible ambition to have. You might not get exactly what you want, but it's not such a great sin to want it.

There would be progress at many workplaces - straight down to the dole queue!

We have four mandatory meetings a week consisting of 8 team members.

Sounds like your company needs fewer mandatory meetings and more virtual coffee breaks.

We have virtual coffee breaks for people who want to join them. One small-group and one department wide each week. No-one has to join and no-one has to use their camera but people always do in the small groups.

What is it with posters gleefully jumping in to say people are likely to be dismissed if they don't unquestionably comply with all employer wishes?

Some employers are unreasonable, unyielding and micromanaging, yes. They can be if people don't have other options, yes. But op asked if the camera thing was a reasonable ask. There are many well-reasoned and balanced arguments as to why it isn't. Only Spartacus has provided a reason why all calls should use camera that doesn't just boil down to individual preference or a controlling mindset - and even she thought there should be exceptions for some people!

So, I'd love to know from these posters on this and other employment threads who just can't wait to point out how we'll all be out of jobs if we don't comply with petty requirements - does it come down to a servile mentality, are you a control freak manager yourself or is it just about giving the op a bit of a kicking?

And which company do you think gets the best out of people and can choose the best people: the one that enforces unbending petty rules or the one that flexes to allow individual quirks and foibles in relatively trivial matters as long as the key requirements of the role are delivered?

We have daily team meetings and almost never have cameras on - several U.K. colleagues have internet connections that struggle with audio and screen sharing, so video is out of the question.

I'd just politely say that your internet connection isn't up to it.