To think mandatory video calls is a ridiculous request?

[Lizzie523]

After nearly a year of working from home our manager has requested we all turn our cameras on for every daily team meeting (which is every day).

I can't say what my colleagues reasons are for turning theirs off some days, but I tend to do it on days my mental health isnt great or I've had a terribly sleepless night due to the stress of this whole situation. Probably once or twice a week. They are arguing we should appear like we were in the office - but in the office we got on with our work and were not having a daily meeting or sitting in front of all our co workers faces.

The meetings are usually pointless check ins where no one has a thing to say. It is always the same extroverts talking about personal stuff. The fact the videos on is now mandatory because they say so has annoyed me quite a bit. AIBU?

My DS has several 'live' lessons a day. Teachers would like them all to use the camera but it's not compulsory.
My DS actually said that he thought it really weird to be looking at people's faces just staring back. Why isn't there a function to block other attendees from seeing you, so it's just you and the 'chair person'?

Worst
(Source - I advise companies on this kind of thing for a living!)

If you advise companies for a living then you'd be familiar with Equality Act

No one agrees with having camera on all day

But for a team meeting, where employer asks paid employees to video chat in which may be necessary for others to participate and hear - yabu and potentially breaching anti discriminatory legislation by not correctly advising companies and workforce.

If they make reasonable adjustments (all cameras on and cameras off for certain individuals) then fine, but you ought know the U.K. legilstation

I think for team meetings camera should be on, who wants to stare at a blank screen when they can see their colleague. I think asking once a week to turn a camera on isn’t asking much. That said we haven’t, we have some managers who don’t turn their camera on and some made a big deal out of it. So it’s just not worth the agro. But I think for many it’s beneficial to everyone’s mental health to see their colleagues. My own team meeting everyone puts their camera on and it’s really nice to see each other

I don’t mind video meetings here and there, but my current employer is trying to get everyone to have their cameras on all the time during the workday which is just batshit to me.

Now that I would refuse!

but my current employer is trying to get everyone to have their cameras on all the time during the workday which is just batshit to me.

I agree. It is very intrusive and "big brotherish". This doesn't foster good relations between managers and staff.

I don't turn my camera on for meetings, I only like people I am close to to see me makeup free and without my hair done

I think you are massively overhtinking this @hellejuice91. Teams/Zoom video camera quality isn't that good. People really aren't going to notice, unless you look like you have just got out of bed.

I would not want a camera on all day. The mere suggestion would cause uproar in my team and rightly so. You don’t need cameras on people if you’re concerned about productivity, far better ways of dealing with it.

@Worst

It’s bad business psychology to insist on cameras being on, and may also have data privacy and human rights implications.

Plenty of studies now show that people feel more exposed and vulnerable on camera and they shouldn’t be subjected to it. Zoom fatigue is real!

Good practice / business etiquette is to build a workplace culture of encouraging people to turn on their camera for small amounts of social interaction but not expect it for a whole meeting, and certainly not for multiple back to back calls.

So people might join with cameras on for the chitchat that happens while others are joining, then turn off while something is being presented. Or have cameras on for a 1:1 or virtual coffee, but not for a team meeting.

Another good practice is to make informal interactions intentional but not arduous. Arrange coffee catch ups. Set aside the first and last 5 minutes of an hour long meeting for informal interaction etc. Don’t have painful 3 hrs long quiz nights.

(Source - I advise companies on this kind of thing for a living!)

Complete agree with everything you've said here. Can you please offer your services to my employer?

@sparticuscaticus there are far more appropriate adjustments is someone is having hearing difficulties.

@Lizzie523 I would be more than happy to offer my services

Workplace Wellbeing Manager here. YANBU. You should absolutely NOT be expected to have your camera on for every meeting. It is however reasonable for your manager to expect to see you at least once a week - if for no other reason than to actually see that you're ok which is one of the responsibilities of a line manager. I heard a CEO describe a whole day on Zoom meetings like 'driving a long distance' - it's physically exhausting to stare at a screen and concentrate for 8-10 hours.

I just don't like having a camera on, it's nothing to do with being dressed or not. It's a moot point anyway, like I said, video conferencing is forbidden.

I guess I don't mind because we are a small team, we all get on with each other, we have a great manager who trusts us, we don't have many meetings or calls, and it means I make sure I look presentable.

@MumOfPsuedoAdult I'm curious to hear what you think if our mandatory daily meetings. I have always hated them and at least 4 other colleagues have said likewise.

I think on the very occasional day where I feel truly awful (every couple of months, say), I will leave my camera off and if I am asked I will simply reply I am not well. It wouldn't be a lie.

[quote Worst]@sparticuscaticus there are far more appropriate adjustments is someone is having hearing difficulties.

@Lizzie523 I would be more than happy to offer my services [/quote]
Thankyou Worst for telling me
what helps my disability 🤨 and what YOU think is a reasonable adjustment for my disability that you know nothing about

Seriously discriminatory response that you ought be ashamed about

Lizzie523 I wouldnt employ her as she has no idea about anti discriminatory practice, she'd be a liability and you'd pay to get poor & discriminatory advice

@sparticuscaticus are you OK?

I’m relatively new to working from home as we have only been doing this for the last four weeks. We have four mandatory meetings a week consisting of 8 team members. It’s just always been a given that every one will have cameras on. I do think that’s polite too. One meeting a team member didn’t and statements of “what are you hiding” and “have you not washed your hair today” were quoted to him. I quite like seeing my team members. What annoys me is the first meeting of the week is informative with every members input. The second meeting has relevant input for 10 minutes but then turns into how is everybody getting on shopping. What has everyone been watching on TV? The meeting lasts an hour a hour and always over runs by 30 minutes of just pure nonsense. This happens on meeting 3 & 4 of the week. This week we were treated to a team member running upstairs and modelling her new coat selection to us. Just pointless. I know home working is isolated but I feel 3 of the 4 mandatory meetings are a total waste of time and our team would not be permitted to spend that much time talking about non related work matters if we were office based. I’m struggling to gain motivation to attend these meetings now and feel turning the camera off would be a release to them

@QueenCoconut

I work in a very senior team and we have multiple virtual meetings every day. No one has ever asked for cameras to be switched on. We share documents, presentations and important papers, that’s the only thing that needs to be visible. We are adults , if we chose to work in our pyjamas that’s our business, as long as the work is done. Some very controlling ‘managers’ out there!

Exactly.

Had a long meet with a bunch of people including clients today.

For the first time in ages (been depressed, got drugs, trying to get on with it) I put some slap on.

For the start we had 7 faces 2 hidden. Intros etc all fine. Had a good bit of chat and work and etc.

Had a break after couple hours then after none of the clients put their vids back on. Which was quite funny.

But I mean who cares? Really. 4 hours with that view. In real life you look at the person talking. Look away to write stuff. You can't see yourself!

I think it's nice to have camera on at start and say hello but then... Does it matter? I don't think so. The quality of the discussion was still high.

During the call we had two rush of to see to kids, one internet conk out.

That's how it goes. It's fine.

I do think it depends on role etc but in general it is stressful I think for a lot of people to be on that grid and seeing themselves.

@alienspiderbee

I'm interested in whether those places that have a cameras on rule, is that something new since Covid, or was it in place prior, or did you work in places where conferences calls didn't really happen?

I've worked a lot of places where conference calls are a daily fact of life but video has never featured. I do like interfaces which let you know who's talking but I don't get anything additional from seeing people's faces on a screen, it doesn't replicate a face to face meeting.

I agree. I've worked largely at home for years pre-Covid and so did much of my team. We have a team meeting once per week which is perfectly sufficient and used to be a conference call. Now it's often done in Teams but with cameras off and those not speaking on mute. There is no need for people to be on camera. People managed perfectly well to keep in touch with international team members etc by telephone and email before video conferencing! The idea that it's necessary on a daily basis is absurd.

For one-to-one meetings we tend to use the video function, or if presenting to a large group. But only the person speaking, not everyone!

Presenteeism and controlling and a sign off poor management to believe that this is needed.

*of!

Muting when not speaking is a basic courtesy, where I work.

I have noticed noticed that a v high powered woman who is a client goes off video after the hellos. And turns it on when she has something to say. That's quite a good tactic I think.

I've worked with overseas teams and UK distance workers for ages and video was never a thing. I'm not sure it used to be that stable or good though tbh.

So it's a lot of change v fast and will take a while to settle in I think.

I've never been a fan of presenteeism in real life or on line.

I can see why you find it instrusive OP and unless you are presenting or someone can justify a particular need to stare at your face randomly then it should be entirely up to your discretion.

You are absolutely not being unreasonable OP, and please don’t let anyone lead to to believe otherwise.

Everyone is different, and for some people, it’s really draining and uncomfortable to be on camera. I work in IT, and I’m in the fortunate position to be able to laugh at people who suggest I turn my camera on. I’m doing a good job, they don’t need to see me, it isn’t my face producing the work. I do however appreciate I’m fortunate to be in a position to flat out refuse.

Honestly OP, you nailed it in your first post; it’s these bloody extroverts :) we’ve had to cater to them massively in offices (open plan, brainstorming, glass doors, hot desks, ‘speak up’) and now some of them want us in our homes as well.

I know plenty of extroverts who are emotionally intelligent and understand there’s no need to force people to appear on camera just because they fancy a gang bang. The others? They can do one.

@sararh

You are absolutely not being unreasonable OP, and please don’t let anyone lead to to believe otherwise.

Everyone is different, and for some people, it’s really draining and uncomfortable to be on camera. I work in IT, and I’m in the fortunate position to be able to laugh at people who suggest I turn my camera on. I’m doing a good job, they don’t need to see me, it isn’t my face producing the work. I do however appreciate I’m fortunate to be in a position to flat out refuse.

Honestly OP, you nailed it in your first post; it’s these bloody extroverts :) we’ve had to cater to them massively in offices (open plan, brainstorming, glass doors, hot desks, ‘speak up’) and now some of them want us in our homes as well.

I know plenty of extroverts who are emotionally intelligent and understand there’s no need to force people to appear on camera just because they fancy a gang bang. The others? They can do one.

Haha! Absolutely. Finally when more people get to enjoy the peace of working from home and they try to ruin that as well!

I totally agree with you. I am paid for the work I produce and my manager could not care less whether I'm wearing PJs or a suit while I work, if I have no external meetings to do. And as was said upthread, managers should check in individually with people they are concerned about. A daily team meeting is an insane idea in most roles. What a waste of time, with or without video calling!

It does sound like much of this is due to people who were poor managers already struggling even more now that they must trust their team instead of micro-manage they are making people's lives miserable to maintain a sense of control. I think also the new way of working has highlighted who is productive and who is not and many middle managers are worried that they have been exposed as expendable so are behaving even worse than they did before. I feel really sorry for people working under these kinds of people.

Your mangers sound like d!cks.
Our whole company has been working from home since last year and as long as our work is done on time and to the high standard it would be in the office, they don't really care about anything else.
I'd go to the HR department and ask for their advice, especially with schools etc being closed.
If they are constantly badgering you about it I would lie and say your kids are there and you're not comfortable with them being on camera and you'll have to mute because of the noise etc, they can't prove otherwise.