To think mandatory video calls is a ridiculous request?

[Lizzie523]

After nearly a year of working from home our manager has requested we all turn our cameras on for every daily team meeting (which is every day).

I can't say what my colleagues reasons are for turning theirs off some days, but I tend to do it on days my mental health isnt great or I've had a terribly sleepless night due to the stress of this whole situation. Probably once or twice a week. They are arguing we should appear like we were in the office - but in the office we got on with our work and were not having a daily meeting or sitting in front of all our co workers faces.

The meetings are usually pointless check ins where no one has a thing to say. It is always the same extroverts talking about personal stuff. The fact the videos on is now mandatory because they say so has annoyed me quite a bit. AIBU?

@Catplanter

I think any manager who insists on this is a shit manager tbh.

Sadly all too common.

Yep lacks empathy and is a form of control/power tripping.

If it makes some people uncomfortable or pisses them off then it's a pointless battle you've won for making someone dissatisfied with work.

No company is going to go under because a few people don't want their cameras on in a meeting.

These are extraordinary times where the majority of people working from home in this situation are struggling. Don't give them another thing that makes them feel like crap. Some people are working from studio flats where their bed, piles of washing and other stuff is in the background, perhaps some people already feel work is intruding enough without their bosses seeing where they sleep or the fact they live in a pokey flat that embarrasses them.

Facial expressions, team cohesion, rudeness - these are all ridiculous reasons for having a camera on. Insisting on it is just exerting power for the sake of it.

@alienspiderbee

i think all meetings should have screens on, or just do a conference telephone call instead without screens

Surely a meeting without screens is a conference call?

@alienspiderbee that’s my point...why do a meeting via zoom if no ones turning their camera on? May as well use an old fashioned telephone and do a conference call. But literally no point doing a video call if cameras aren’t on.

either you are hiring the wrong people, or you are paranoid

Quite. I can't imagine hiring anyone I didn't trust.

I can't see why faces need to be visible for a check in meeting. They are so pointless, it's more productive if you can do some other work at the same time!

This is why I expect cameras on, I don't have pointless meetings and we don't have AOB on agendas for that reason, if I am having a video meeting it is the same as a face to face meeting and all employees are expected to have video on, if it is a daily catch up I will do it over the phone.

I would not expect someone to be doing work in a face to face meeting that distracts from that meeting.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/councillor-shower-video-meeting-bernardo-bustillo-spain-torrelavega-a9601021.html

this is one of the reasons employers ask for cameras on - so that you aren't doing something else!

there are loads of examples of people simply not concentrating or even not listening on calls. Seeing people also does make people more engaged and make the meeting feel more real. I don't like it all the time either but I totally understand why employers want it. The temptation at home to do these calls and unload the dishwasher, put the washing on or simply have it on the background while you do something else is pretty big!

I request that all cameras are on when I'm paying people their wages to work. I'm not paying them to sit in their PJ's . I expect my teams to be as presentable working from home as they would be in the office. I haven't had anyone ask to go off camera yet

It's got nothing to do with work whether I wear office clothes or not! Today I'm wearing a black t shirt and leggings with cat faces on and I'll put a hoodie on when I get cold. I haven't worn make up since last March. None of this affects my ability to do my job!

I wonder what the split is in terms of women turning off their cameras vs men?

Oh meetings where I’ve seen this, it tends to be women who won’t be on camera. Men seem more comfortable just doing what they’re doing and letting people see that.

Are women making themselves invisible in work?

All you managers assuming that if people don't have their camera on it means they are hiding the fact they're not paying attention - either you are hiring the wrong people, or you are paranoid. Either way you need to take a look at yourself
Or maybe because they have very good reasons to suspect that sadly, some people associate working from home with slacking, people who when monitored closely, as in in the same building will do reasonable work.

Not everyone is naturally dedicated and diligent with work. Many still operate very much as if they are still at school, trying to get away with doing as little work as possible and only do what will otherwise get them into trouble.

I'm still to read a valid reason why cameras can't be on for a meeting and totally agree that talking to a screen is just not pleasant.

Every company gets to set its culture and expectations. Cameras on is standard in meetings for every company I've worked for. People are more engaged if their camera is on.

I actually posted upthread saying that I'd never dream of not switching my camera on, which is true, as it's considered basic manners where I work.

But on reading through the thread, I think I would feel the same as many of you if I worked in a different working environment. Certainly one of my past employers was exactly the type of organisation that didn't trust anyone, assumed the worst of everyone etc and nothing we ever did was good enough. I think if I still worked there, I too would be refusing to put my camera on as it would piss me off. Where I work now, no one even suggests camera off because everyone is comfortable with each other and with how we are treated. We are not micromanaged; management is the lightest touch, we are expected to manage our own workload and use our initiative and speak up if we are struggling. And if you do speak up, it is taken seriously and not thrown back at you that you mustn't be working hard enough. The chief executive himself is willing to listen to employees concerns if they are struggling. No one gives a damn if someone is wearing their gym gear or hasn't put makeup on.

So, in the end, I think a lot of it comes down to your working environment. If I was expected to put my camera on just to prove that I'm not slacking off, on a point of principal I think I'd be digging my heels in and refusing.

gosh I'm with you OP.
There was a good suggestion earlier:
"It's been shown that having to appear on camera is much more mentally and physically tiring than meeting in person. You shouldn't have to do it for pointless daily chitchat amongst the time, doesn't sound productive or effective."

Assassin has summed it up well. All those managers insisting on cameras on reveal themselves with comments like I won't let anything get past me if I can help it or I'm annoyed or look at me when I'm talking to you etc etc. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck then it's-all-about-me PA controlling behaviour making a poor pretence of feigning duty of care. Astounding what little insight people have into their underlying motives.

I've progressed perfectly well without that thank you, due to the fact I have never wanted to work in an environment that upholds that sort of culture

Well yes, as you say you’ve decided that you don’t want to work in an environment that upholds a culture that values appearance. Many people do, or don’t have the option as such a culture, in one form or another, tends to be the norm.

It's got nothing to do with work whether I wear office clothes or not! Today I'm wearing a black t shirt and leggings with cat faces on and I'll put a hoodie on when I get cold. I haven't worn make up since last March. None of this affects my ability to do my job!
It's not for you to decide just like you didn't get to decide at school.

It's amazing how this move to working from home is making some people think they have become entitled to make rules and policies on behalf of their employer!

Or maybe because they have very good reasons to suspect that sadly, some people associate working from home with slacking, people who when monitored closely, as in in the same building will do reasonable work

If this is true, and I wouldn't deny this possibility, then having cameras on during a morning meeting is hardly an effective solution to people slacking when wfh.

And it's not pleasant for you...not valid for you but others might and do have a different viewpoint as per many PP's comments.

*All those managers insisting on cameras on reveal themselves"
Say I would say that the same applies to some employees.

It will be interesting to see how things will evolved when people will have to go back to the office permanently because I think many won't and considering the employment rate, many without a job will be very happy to take their place.

During the hours you are paid to work - in a role that is supposed to be face to face - I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for the video to be on.
The fact that we are WFH doesn't mean you shouldn't dress for work, put make up on etc. Not mandatory of course, but if you need it to feel comfortable on screen then just take the time to do it in the morning, just as you would if you were going to the office.

Also, so annoying to be talking in meetings only to realize some people are not listening as they are doing something else. And a lot of people do. Cameras on prevents this.

I don’t insist - but I do like to see people.

I attend meetings and training courses where it is compulsory

And it's not pleasant for you...not valid for you but others might and do have a different viewpoint as per many PP's comments
Indeed, but if my boss tells me I have to do something that isn't unreasonable, even if I don't like it, I accept it because well...they are my boss and they get to decide on the rules, not me.

It's not necessarily a rule for us to have cameras on (big multinational company) but we all do. If we do, for some reason, switch it off we tend to add a comment to the chat (e.g. "sorry, just need to get the dog out the room/ doorbell is ringing/ we have workmen in"). But mostly we just blur our backgrounds anyway and have it on constantly. Yes, its annoying. Yes, sometimes I wish we didn't. But in normal times they would have to see me at work in the office regardless of how crap I felt that day anyway.

@GreyWall

It is actually distressing for some to be on camera

But perfectly acceptable for teachers hey?

Along with no masks in classrooms.... FFS

What's teachers got to do with it?

@Throckmorton

All you managers assuming that if people don't have their camera on it means they are hiding the fact they're not paying attention - either you are hiring the wrong people, or you are paranoid. Either way you need to take a look at yourself.

Or look at the staff they have hired. Employees are expecting their employers to just keep them in a job when they are not even prepared to put in the extra effort of just switching a bloody camera on.

@PegasusReturns

As someone who frequently hosts meetings I find it rude when people have cameras off and are muted. They’re always the same people that claim “you just cut out there, could you repeat the question”

You're supposed to be muted if you're not speaking, reduces feedback

@dontdisturbmenow

It's got nothing to do with work whether I wear office clothes or not! Today I'm wearing a black t shirt and leggings with cat faces on and I'll put a hoodie on when I get cold. I haven't worn make up since last March. None of this affects my ability to do my job! It's not for you to decide just like you didn't get to decide at school.

It's amazing how this move to working from home is making some people think they have become entitled to make rules and policies on behalf of their employer!

Please tell me what's not presentable about a black t shirt? And, as no one will see my bottom half, what's the problem with leggings? Why am I going to sit here in work trousers when no one is going to see them?

This thread has made me realise that I’ve been on some video calls this week , of my choosing, but I haven’t brushed my hair since I washed it on Sunday

Nobody has pulled me up for not being able to do my job cos I’ve got bed head. Might go and give it a quick brush though