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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you believe in 'ghosts'?

492 replies

Bump2021 · 11/01/2021 18:27

I'm not a woo person by nature, I'm more of a sceptic but there has been two or three occasions where I've encountered something unexplainable.

Do you believe in the paranormal?

YANBU - yes (please explain why)
YABU - no, it's a load of bollocks

OP posts:
Echo08 · 13/01/2021 13:11

@LudaMusser187

Has anybody ever done a ouija board?

I haven't and would never even consider it but when I was about fifteen I remember sitting in a science lesson at school and a girl suddenly stood up and started screaming. She was absolutely petrified.

I later heard she had done a ouija board a few days earlier and was convinced she had seen something standing in the middle of the classroom

Yes on pararanomal nights but we call them spirit boards , Ouija boards have been given a bad name over the years mainly from TV and people just messing about with them. They are actually my favourite, done sensibly and I have a a lot of verified information off them and shut down correctly they are fine .But if you do them with the intention of purely messing about then you highly likely will find yourself in trouble .
teuer · 13/01/2021 13:12

Buggered. Good grief that’s some scary shit 😱

CounsellorTroi · 13/01/2021 14:05

Telly turns itself on in our bedroom at night so we've had to unplug it.

Surely if this was really woo it would still come on?

Buggeredpelvicfloor2013 · 13/01/2021 14:07

It is sometimes, but it seems to be playful and not evil. Honestly, I was the least woo person in the world till I hit my 20s! Thats when something happened in my old house that absolutely terrified the shit out of me. To the point we moved house!! X

Buggeredpelvicfloor2013 · 13/01/2021 14:08

Haha possibly, but has never happened since its been unplugged so....

teuer · 13/01/2021 14:10

buggered can you say what happened in old house or is it something you don’t like to talk about?

CounsellorTroi · 13/01/2021 14:11

@Buggeredpelvicfloor2013

Haha possibly, but has never happened since its been unplugged so....
...which sort of proves my point. The other stuff is odd though.
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 13/01/2021 14:15

Well considering that we've had the entirety of the history of humanity for one single, credible piece of tangible evidence to emerge that there's anything whatsoever to all of this 'spirituality', 'ghosts', 'paranormal' etc, and as of yet, there hasn't been a single shred of anything worthwhile appearing, then no, I'm forced to conclude that it is indeed 'a load of bollocks' OP.

SpudsandGravy · 13/01/2021 14:16

Another fascinating and currently unexplained phenomenon is that some people who receive transplanted organs experience personality changes, which appear to mirror aspects of the personalities of the donors.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336987446PersonalityyChangesFollowinggHeartTransplantationnTheRoleeofCellularr_Memory

Buggeredpelvicfloor2013 · 13/01/2021 14:19

I can but I sound like an absolute nutter!! Honestly Blush so, when I was pregnant with my first child, we started experiencing loads of weird stuff in the house. Doors wouldn't unlock (keys just wouldn't turn), electric wired fire alarm system would just randomly beep for no reason, microwave would come on every now and again. We didn't think too much of it - just attributed it to faults with the house etc and rang the rental company each time we couldn't unlock doors. Then one night, me and DH could hear what sounded like footsteps running from room to room upstairs. He went up to look, of course nothing was there but all the lights were on. Turned them off came back down. Happened again, went back upstairs, lights on again. A few nights later, we were laid in bed nodding off and all of a sudden, this male voice shouted my name so loud we both shot up in bed (we had both heard it) and I shit you not, the drawers on the dressing tables at each side of the bed flew open. We just couldn't explain it, there was nothing we could say at all. Thinking back now, the house always felt a bit cold and unwelcoming if that makes sense. It sounds ridiculous seeing it written now but the absolute fear I felt at the time was awful. X

SpudsandGravy · 13/01/2021 14:21

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Well considering that we've had the entirety of the history of humanity for one single, credible piece of tangible evidence to emerge that there's anything whatsoever to all of this 'spirituality', 'ghosts', 'paranormal' etc, and as of yet, there hasn't been a single shred of anything worthwhile appearing, then no, I'm forced to conclude that it is indeed 'a load of bollocks' OP.

Whether or not that's true depends upon what you're looking for by way of evidence. There's a lot of testimony, and many people who do believe in ghosts/paranormal don't consider it possible to simply write all of it off as lies or misunderstandings.

There are also photos and videos. It hasn't been possible for sceptics to debunk them all. I don't know which ones may be real - I'm not an expert - but when people who apparently are experts say that they can't work out how some of those photos/videos might have been faked I'm interested to hear it.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 13/01/2021 14:56

Whether or not that's true depends upon what you're looking for by way of evidence.

Well something measurable, demonstrable, repeatable, etc. Some sort of scientifically credible explanation for where things like 'spirits' are supposed to exist, what type of matter they are comprised of, why they can seemingly materialise and dematerialise to suit whether the human at hand is amenable to suggestion or not, why the presence or otherwise of 'spirits' appears to be completely random and haphazard and not dependent on circumstance, cause and effect etc. I'm not talking about pseudo-scientific garbage explanations like 'the afterlife', 'psionic manifestations', 'ether', 'traumatic events', I mean proof to the sort of standard that we require to believe any other sort of claim made about the existence/reality of other things.

The burden of proof doesn't lie with the sceptic, it lies with the people who claim these things are fact. Fine, they might argue that they feel no need to demonstrate to sceptics that they are indeed real, but I find it more telling that whenever that challenge has been laid down, including with substantial rewards for the challenge being met, it's singularly failed to produce any sort satisfactory response.

For people who are insistent that their homes are 'haunted', or that they are sharing their homes with 'spirits', surely, even to put an end to sceptical mocking, you'd be happy for the world to examine your claim and produce tangible evidence to show that you are not completely barking, yet nope, not a single case of undeniable proof attained.

There's a lot of testimony, and many people who do believe in ghosts/paranormal don't consider it possible to simply write all of it off as lies or misunderstandings.

Whether believers consider it possible or not is neither here nor there. The fact is, nobody has provided anything that bears up to scrutiny that could be said to be cast-iron proof that there is any such thing as a 'ghost', 'spirit', etc etc

There are also photos and videos. It hasn't been possible for sceptics to debunk them all. I don't know which ones may be real - I'm not an expert - but when people who apparently are experts say that they can't work out how some of those photos/videos might have been faked I'm interested to hear it

Again, burden of proof does not lie with 'debunkers'. There's no need to debunk every single photo or video, because sceptics are not trying to prove the existence of anything. That onus lies with the people making the claim that these things are real. Just because the explanation for how a specific video or photograph came about isn't immediately to hand says absolutely nothing about the existence of 'ghosts'. It does not mandate the existence of the paranormal, it's just a video or a photograph that appears to show something out of the ordinary.

To be honest, with the number of posters in this thread claiming to have witnessed ghosts, paranormal events, etc, the world must be absolutely teeming with such things, yet still nobody comes forward with anything that stands up to scrutiny. The sort of explanations they provide are on a par with some of the complete nonsense that religious believers spout. "Oh, ghosts only appear to those who are amenable/susceptible". I mean, come on... we're all the same species, we're all remarkably similar. Sure, there are differences from individual to individual in quality of sight, hearing, strength, size etc, but it's not like some people are born with an extra sensory organ that can pick up signals 'from the other side' and some of us are not. That's laughable nonsense. The 'other side' of what for starters? Again, another layer of pseudo-scientific nonsense used to 'explain' things that don't require an explanation in the first place.

Hm2020 · 13/01/2021 15:07

I’m glad I came across this thread just a before Christmas me, my mum, Nan, my sister and my 6 year old son where in my mums living room watching tv my son playing with toys and we had what we thought was a power cut every light went off tv internet and me and my sisters phones lit up it lasted maybe 60 seconds but strange as we’re in central London and not know to have power cuts it was only when my mum pointed out the dozens of small Christmas decorations on the mental piece and table where battery operated now I’ve been looking for a way to explain this since I even started my own thread in chat but no one really replied my friends told me to move Grin now can anyone give me an explanation for this I’m open to hearing anyone’s opinion on this one..

MilkMoon · 13/01/2021 15:09

Good post, @XDownwiththissortofthingX.

There's a slightly weird attitude that regularly surfaces on threads like this which seems to presume that skeptics have a vested interest in the supernatural not being real but why would we? Anyone would be fascinated to encounter genuine evidence of the existence of something that expands our sense of the possible, whether that's ghosts, or psychic abilities, or whatever the same as people would if extraterrestrial life forms made contact.

But so far there's no credible evidence at all.

MilkMoon · 13/01/2021 15:19

@Hm2020

I’m glad I came across this thread just a before Christmas me, my mum, Nan, my sister and my 6 year old son where in my mums living room watching tv my son playing with toys and we had what we thought was a power cut every light went off tv internet and me and my sisters phones lit up it lasted maybe 60 seconds but strange as we’re in central London and not know to have power cuts it was only when my mum pointed out the dozens of small Christmas decorations on the mental piece and table where battery operated now I’ve been looking for a way to explain this since I even started my own thread in chat but no one really replied my friends told me to move Grin now can anyone give me an explanation for this I’m open to hearing anyone’s opinion on this one..
Well, I don't know what caused this, though the most obvious explanation for the plugged-in appliances' malfunctioning is, as you say, a power cut or a small power surge, and my phone has certainly periodically lit up in the middle of the night when not being used (techie friends suggest it's a rogue app), but are you seriously concluding that a supernatural force did this?
Spidey66 · 13/01/2021 15:24

No.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 13/01/2021 15:30

@MilkMoon

Exactly.

I'd love nothing more than for it to be established as fact that humans can communicate telepathically, move things with our minds, manifest avatars after our deaths, 'speak' to people from beyond the grave, etc etc, all the things that are commonly attributed to 'ghosts', it would be like living in a world with real-life superheroes, and although I think it would inevitably be hijacked by the religious as somehow proving the existence of the divine, it would genuinely be an astounding discovery and pose so many more intriguing questions about the nature of the universe.

Instead, there's nothing but unsubstantiated claims, old-wives tales, garbage TV programs about 'haunted' buildings, total frauds who refuse to have their self-professed 'abilities' subjected to any sort of scrutiny, and one-off videos and photos that can not be reproduced.

This is before you ponder the problem that the majority of human beings live their entire lives without ever encountering any single instance of anything 'paranormal', despite the planet being billions of years old, billions of humans having lived and passed, the places we frequent most often having been inhabited for hundreds, and often thousands of years by our predecessors etc.

It seems that there's an entirely undocumented and incomprehensible side to the universe that only some human beings can experience, depending on some random factors that nobody can actually quantify, and is entirely off-limits to all others, despite the universe not operating on this discriminatory basis in any other aspect.

TurquoiseDragon · 13/01/2021 15:47

It'salways a woman with a long white dress and hair. I wonder what the rest of the undead do as women with long white dresses do the haunting. You think they'd be a bit of variety in costume at least, laundry bills in the afterlife must be staggering.

It might be something to do with people commonly being buried/cremated in a white gown, not everyday clothes. It's more common now to have everyday clothes, but the option of picking a white gown for the deceased is still available (I organised a funeral just before Xmas).

EmmanuelleMakro · 13/01/2021 15:51

I would LOVE to see a ghost (and ask it questions) but never happened...
When I said this to the DC when they were little, they were horrified! ‘But what if it chased you???’

CounsellorTroi · 13/01/2021 15:55

In the sightings I have read about, ghosts seem to be able to pass through walls and other solid objects, but also to touch people, and to lift, throw and otherwise interact with household objects. This would seem a bit contradictory.

MilkMoon · 13/01/2021 16:08

@CounsellorTroi

In the sightings I have read about, ghosts seem to be able to pass through walls and other solid objects, but also to touch people, and to lift, throw and otherwise interact with household objects. This would seem a bit contradictory.
Yes, it was one of the things my eight-year-old pointed out about Ghost, which he saw over Christmas (well, parts of it, he mostly liked Whoopi Goldberg, and the demons dragging off the dead baddies) -- that Patrick Swayze's dead Sam has to train exhaustively to be able to push a coin around because, having no body mass, he just passes through solid objects, but on the other hand, he has no problem sitting on chairs or walking on the floor while dead. Grin
Elphame · 13/01/2021 16:20

@SpudsandGravy

Another fascinating and currently unexplained phenomenon is that some people who receive transplanted organs experience personality changes, which appear to mirror aspects of the personalities of the donors.

[[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336987446]]PersonalityyChangesFollowinggHeartTransplantationnTheRoleeofCellularr_Memory

And that is why I have opted out of the donor register. I will not give nor receive an organ.

It's good to see science catching up with what many have felt intuitively for years.

MilkMoon · 13/01/2021 17:02

And that is why I have opted out of the donor register. I will not give nor receive an organ.

It's good to see science catching up with what many have felt intuitively for years.

But science isn't 'catching up' with the idea that organ transplants also transplant personalities -- there have been two tiny studies. One one ten transplant patients, one on 47. The one with 47 individuals reported that only 6% felt their personalities had changed after the transplant. 'Cellular memory' is a speculative scientific hypothesis, rather than anything generally accepted.

Yes, there have absolutely been individual testimonies, and lots of novels and films since The Hands of Orlac (because having a part of someone else's body working in yours is freaky, and it's a brilliant premise!), but equally there have been transplant surgeons pointing out that there are all kinds of completely rational reasons why someone might manifest a personality change after an organ transplant, whether that's down to coming close to death and suddenly having a new lease of life, the large amounts of drugs needed to stop the body rejecting the new organ which can have physiological or psychological side effects, or complex feelings about 'benefiting' from someone else's death.

They've also pointed out that hearing even basic details about the donor, or having some contact with their family, may mean that the person with the organ may be consciously or unconsciously influenced by the idea of feeling the presence of the dead donor inside them, or think it might please the family to think of X 'living on'.

Sylvia Claire, who wrote a book about her belief that she had developed the personality of the man who donated her heart and lungs, was told by a nurse at the hospital that her donor had been an eighteen year old male who died in a motorbike accident. It seems very likely that her sense that she now had a hybrid male personality, with a liking for curvy blonde women, chicken nuggets and beer, was influenced by this knowledge. I mean, it must be very difficult psychologically to deal with a transplant, and it's not hard to imagine how you could fall prey to auto-suggestion -- especially when we see the heart as the seat of emotions, love etc.

Chargebeam · 13/01/2021 17:14

The idea that you wouldn't do something that would save someone's life because of some woo bullshit would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

teuer · 13/01/2021 17:26

Buggered. That stuff sounds very hard to come up with a logical reason for. Especially if you both heard and saw the same things. It’s harder to go for the hallucination explanation when more than one person is witnessing the same things. I’m up for every rational reason possible but I don’t blame you for moving after that 😧.

I had some very odd things happen in a house we rented but I’ve put the. Down to the fact that we weren’t the only ones with access to the house.

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