To give M&S the award for the worst case of vanity sizing on the highstreet?!

[ChocolateSantaisthebestkind]

Ordered some clothes for DH's GM, who is in her 90's and slim, but does not like to feel waistbands etc. so DH's Mum (GM lives with DH's parents) asked me to order her size 14 in everything (nightwear, elasticated trousers, cardigans). Anyway, they arrive and DMIL calls me to say can I reorder it all again in a size 10, as what has arrived in size 14, comfortably fits DMIL, who is definitely an 18 in M&S and has 'got a bit spare from Christmas' (her words not mine, and haven't we all!) GMIL usually takes a 14 in other shops and previously in M&S and is not overly skinny, but slim, with an 'overhang' from abdo surgery in her 30's.

AIBU to think that this is ridiculous?

I've always found M&S too small in my usual size.

Vanity sizing is definitely a thing. And not just in M & S.

My DD is 5 ft 7, and a size 8. She tried a dress on of mine (that I wore in the mid 1980s as a young woman.) It was a size 12 (which I was in the mid 1980s.)

It only just fit her, and the zip only just zipped up.

I can name at LEAST 5 or 6 other occasions where something similar has happened.

Proving that vanity sizing is very real.

@BooFuckingHoo2

Because there are threads like this all the time on mumsnet and it smacks of “how dare that woman think she’s a 10 when she’s clearly a 14”, it’s very unpleasant.

Absolute nonsense.

People saying women who are a size 8-10 now, would have been a size 12-14 thirty years ago, are not being 'very unpleasant.' They're stating a fact. FFS, grow up, and stop projecting your issues onto other people.

@Sparklfairy

And no-one is SKINNY-shaming. But there are an awful lot of posters who charge onto threads like this, shouting loudly about how 'tiny' they are, how a size 8 drowns them, and how anyone who is a size 14 is obese!

I find this an issue for dc. I have to sew dc clothes because their “normal” slim builds don’t fit any clothes and the adjustable waists end up so rucked up it’s ridiculous and uncomfortable for my 9 and 12 yos. I do find their sizes have been consistent for me in the past but not bought anything this year clothing wise.

GAP is the one for me. I can fit their UK size 8, whereas everywhere else I am a size 10-12. It definitely is vanity as I love wearing my size 8 GAP clothes, even though I am nowhere near a size 8!!

I've got M&S, Sainsbury's Tu and Next trousers, all size 10, all fit the same. Maybe it varies with style?

I've found with M&S I now need short rather than medium length but I'm still in the medium in other brands.

*@BarbaraofSeville

Does no-one know what DGM looks like? Is she very tall? Because otherwise no-one's going to think she's slim and fits into an M&S 14.

Because that's what size I take and I'm 5'7 and far from 'slim'.

Wow. Feel good about yourself now do you? I'm a 14 (in many stores, even H&M, although I also have clothes from 6-14), I'm slim, taller than most but a14 is still my go to size.

I must be weird, because in GAP, i wear size 26 jeans. They always fit.
In the american sizes at GAP, I am a 2.They fit perfectly.

Given that I am happy with the fit in Gap and M&S, am I to deduce that I would be a size 12 everywhere else?

Are my scales wrong too as I think my BMI is in the healthy range?

Agree even their children's clothes are ridiculous. Got a dress in 12-18m that I'm waiting to fit my bang on average height, average weight 2 year old - it's like a sack on her. One of several items!

Marks reviewed their sizing a good few years ago now to cater primarily for 'pears' so I often find the sizing useless. To get something to fit my waist it flaps around the hips massively, but I don't think the clothing is generally vanity sized as such compared to other similar brands.

People saying women who are a size 8-10 now, would have been a size 12-14 thirty years ago

I'm 51, I took size 16 jeans as a teen, I weigh less now and I'm a 14 in most skinny jeans (sometimes smaller in a looser cut). I don't see sizing as having changed much, apart from waists sometimes being larger and things are longer (which is a bonus).

@Clymene

Ah I see the MN teeny tinies are out in force.

Oh sorry, are slim women not allowed to comment on a thread about the sizing of women's clothes?

I'm not going to pretend to feel guilty for not being obese, especially with bitchy comments like the above flying around.

If you feel that bitter about your weight / body shape that it's making you lash out, do something about it. You're not going to lose many pounds sitting on your arse bitching on Mumsnet.

I mostly just find M&S sizing really inconsistent. You can buy the same item - like their skinny jeans or leggings - in the same in three different colours and each item will be a different fit even though they're meant to be exactly the same. And of course lots of variation between different items. I have skirts and trousers from them (all bought this year) in 10, 12 and 14 and all fit.

I find the reviews on their website quite useful - you can usually tell from other people's comments how something's going to fit.

I think Next are horrific for this. I used to love next clothes for baby, maternity and their petite section.
I bought a skirt for myself just after my DS was born (he's 11) It was a size 6 (not a stealth boast, I'm very short so its all relative...and normally a size 8) and the only one of that design. Im normally size 8 and ever since I had it I can only wear it on what I consider flat belly days because its such a snug fit!
A few years ago I bought another skirt in Next, very similar in style, in a size 6. Its several inches too big around the waist and I could pull the whole thing down over my hips if I'm not wearing a belt. Ive stayed the same size/shape and most other clothes are size 8.
The problem with this kind of vanity sizing is what am I meant to do if I want to buy clothes there? I am not terribly skinny (I'm short and fairly straight up and down, so no tiny waist here) but if size 6 is (probably 2 sizes) too big then I can't buy adult clothes there, and next doesn't even have an older kids or teen range - I think they're missing a market there! If you buy kids clothes there you'd literally be wearing clothes to suit a 4 year old with sequin unicorns on them!

I mostly just find M&S sizing really inconsistent. You can buy the same item - like their skinny jeans or leggings - in the same in three different colours and each item will be a different fit even though they're meant to be exactly the same. And of course lots of variation between different items. I have skirts and trousers from them (all bought this year) in 10, 12 and 14 and all fit. Thinking about it many moons ago I had a Saturday job at M&S. Each style had a code followed by a code for the manufacturer who made it. If you really liked the fit of something and you wanted another one you made sure the codes matched. Hope that makes sense.

I'm an 8 in most shops, tried to buy a dress from M&S for Christmas. Thought it looked a tad big but thought it will fit fine as I'm 28 weeks pregnant so probably perfect size. It was MASSIVE on me. Like ridiculously big. Won't be buying clothes from there again.

For those asking, GMIL is not a 14, but likes to wear a 14 because she cannot tolerate feeling waistbands on her. She would comfortably fit a 10 if she did not want to wear things as loose as she likes. She is slim, not skinny and her weight has remained stable all her life. She was about 5 ft 6, but is now stooped. I was surprised because like many, I use M&S for school uniforms and Raspberry Jaffa cakes, I shop in Uniqlo because I like their style, so can't comment on their women's clothes. Also I am not a teeny tiny either, I am curvy slim with GG boobs and I eat what I fancy at the time. Do walk everywhere though (when we are allowed out!)

Vanity sizing is ridiculous, it is next to impossible to buy any clothing online now - I have clothes ranging from size 4 - 10 in my wardrobe that all fit me well. I am most definitley NOT a size 4 (and they are New look so UK sizing apparently) I do now check the measurements on everything because the sizes vary so dramatically.

You can buy the same item - like their skinny jeans or leggings - in the same in three different colours and each item will be a different fit

This is true, black being the smallest although in a previous thread I think someone mentioned black clothes shrink the most in the dying process.

I think it also depends on how you want your clothes to fit. I like things to closely fit, and if they are loosely styled, maybe girlfriend jeans, I will size down. My DD buys bigger clothes that me even though she is smaller. I have a size 6 H&M tunic dress, I'm not a 6 in anyone's imagination, I can only imagine it was meant to be oversized.

@SpilltheTea

It's so annoying that every shop has different size guides, instead of going by inches like men do. It's such a faff finding jeans, ordering different sizes and hoping one will fit. I can't comment on M&S, but I find Next tops come up quite big.

Even shops that go by inches are inconsistent. Eg Uniqlo. I’m a 26 in their jeans but the size S leggings trousers, which is supposed to be for waist 27-28 are too small.

And I agree re. M&S. I’m a size smaller there than anywhere else. It’s annoying. Although I think their online sizing guide is relatively accurate.

With so much clothes shopping being done online these days you'd think that manufacturers would get together and agree on sizings. Or at least put all the measurements - chest, waist, hips, inside leg, ankle width, skirt length, hem width, etc - on the adverts, seeing as we can't physically touch the items or measure them in the shop 🙄 I find clothes shopping enough of a challenge without the "will this fit me?" lottery ☹️

Fucks sake. Why does this always happen on here?

I agree with many posts that many sizes are inconsistent (because they are, that's not an opinion, that's just the way it is) and agree that 'vanity sizing' is a shit term.

It would just be SO nice to be able to have a conversation about it without the mudslinging. 'Fat' shaming/'skinny' shaming whatever the hell you want to call it is always intended to start a bun fight and if you do it, you're an arsehole.

Vanity sizing just means the people on the lower end of the size spectrum aren’t catered for. If a size 4 is seemingly designed to fit a size 8, what is the person who is actually a size 4 or size 6 supposed to wear? Before the slim-shaming starts, a size 4/6 woman is probably 5ft tall and is generally petite rather than someone with an eating disorder.

They can’t just wear oversized, slouchy stuff all the time. How do you otherwise expect them to find smart attire eg blazers and trousers that fit well for work? It seems like they have to additionally pay for tailoring, for the sake of pandering to someone else’s ego boost.

I agree with you @BooFuckingHoo2 and not sure why some MNetters are taking what you say so personally!

@CandidaAlbicans2

With so much clothes shopping being done online these days you'd think that manufacturers would get together and agree on sizings. Or at least put all the measurements - chest, waist, hips, inside leg, ankle width, skirt length, hem width, etc - on the adverts, seeing as we can't physically touch the items or measure them in the shop 🙄 I find clothes shopping enough of a challenge without the "will this fit me?" lottery ☹️

Exactly! It just causes more work for delivery companies with all the returns now