To give M&S the award for the worst case of vanity sizing on the highstreet?!

[ChocolateSantaisthebestkind]

Ordered some clothes for DH's GM, who is in her 90's and slim, but does not like to feel waistbands etc. so DH's Mum (GM lives with DH's parents) asked me to order her size 14 in everything (nightwear, elasticated trousers, cardigans). Anyway, they arrive and DMIL calls me to say can I reorder it all again in a size 10, as what has arrived in size 14, comfortably fits DMIL, who is definitely an 18 in M&S and has 'got a bit spare from Christmas' (her words not mine, and haven't we all!) GMIL usually takes a 14 in other shops and previously in M&S and is not overly skinny, but slim, with an 'overhang' from abdo surgery in her 30's.

AIBU to think that this is ridiculous?

@BackwardsGoing

I also dislike the term vanity sizing and I regularly say it on these threads. It’s not true in the sense that shops do it to make people feel thin. They do it with a view of their average customers size.

That's an interesting theory. Unfortunately people use dress size to convince themselves they are a healthy weight ("I'm only a size 16", "I can't be an unhealthy weight, the average UK dress size is 14 and I'm only a bit bigger than that"). It's not necessarily the fault of clothing retailers but I wish people would stop using dress size as a health indicator if it's such a variable.

It’s not a theory. If you look at fashion supply this is how they work it out (or it was when I studied fashion 20 odd years ago). The fact people use it as an indicator of health is irrelevant to the motives of the shop. That’s to do with other factors.

I have clothes I bought in the mid 1970s when I was 17. I weighed 9 stone at 17 and wore a 12. I weigh 9 stone now and wear a 12.
There is no way I can fasten the size 12 skirt from 1974.
So yes, there is probably a slight change of my shape but equally the waist on the old skirt is tiny compared to modern ones.

@MrsKoala I understand. It's interesting in terms of cause and effect though. If a Next size 12 is smaller than an M&S size 12 it might lead to larger customers favouring M&S, which then causes M&S to increase their sizing and so in. Eventually you have really polarised shops. Is that really what customers want?

Appreciate that shops don't have a responsibility to the collective self-delusion of people who use dress size as a healthy weight marker.

I’ve just looked at the M&S size guide and compared it to four other size guides at random (Boohoo, Dorothy Perkins, Dancing Leopard, Mint Velvet) and the sizing is completely done n line with all of those, five or take half an inch for some of the measurements. So unless the actual clothes come up larger than they should based on their size guide, their sizing is about the same as everywhere else (although o would expect Topshop and Zara sizes to be smaller as they have always been notably small even back when I was a teen).

It's the inconsistency within M&S itself that is most irritating.
e.g. I ordered 2 pairs of trousers in different colours shown as 1 item on the website; my usual 12, regular length, were different sizes & different lengths !

Actually, just checked and the Topshop size guide is only smaller for the hip measurement.

@Georgyporky

It's the inconsistency within M&S itself that is most irritating. e.g. I ordered 2 pairs of trousers in different colours shown as 1 item on the website; my usual 12, regular length, were different sizes & different lengths !

I agree inconsistency within a shops range is irritating. I don’t care what size they choose to adhere to (I just choose the one that fits me best and ignore the number in the label) but at least stick to it.

As their average customers get bigger then all the sizes get bigger to keep a 12 their average size

Seriously? That makes no sense at all. Shops can't complain about people ordering multiple sizes and returning most of what they order if they have to try and hit a moving target if what might fit.

@unmarkedbythat

My mum buys M&S jeans only because the sizing makes her happy :)

If I need an ego boost I (used to) try on clothes at Asda, because at Asda I can wear teeny tiny sizes. If I need to make myself feel like shit I try on clothes at H&M because in their trousers I am a beached whale.

In any case, whatever the label says I am aware of my weight and capable of understanding my BMI so whether I am in a 8 or an 18 doesn't matter. I have never found my expanding belly causes my brain to stop working.

I agree... Asda’s sizing are very generous!

I make this point every time someone makes a fuss about charity shops organising by colour and not size.

Something labelled a size 12 isn't a standard size. Vintage size 14s are more like a current size 8. Sizes are inconsistent between shops and even between ranges within the same shop.

@BarbaraofSeville

As their average customers get bigger then all the sizes get bigger to keep a 12 their average size

Seriously? That makes no sense at all. Shops can't complain about people ordering multiple sizes and returning most of what they order if they have to try and hit a moving target if what might fit.

I don’t think they change it daily but it’s more gradual as they do research in what size is selling more. I think it’s slightly barmy too. Just keep it the way it is and extend the upper range. I’d happily buy a 16 if that’s what my measurements equal. I know I’m a healthy weight I don’t use clothes to judge that.

I loathe the term vanity sizing. Why can’t you just say inconsistent sizing (which is what it is)? Why does everything have to revolve around the value of women being a small dress size?

Because it is inconsistent, but some shops purposefully make sizes bigger so people are more likely to buy them.

@SoddingWeddings

Nope, fatty here, they are consistent for sizes 20-24.

Seconded. Also a fatty.

This has been going on for decades. I am quite tall, and in the mid to late 60’s, measuring 34 22 34, and weighing 7stone 10lbs, I was size 10-12. If I was that weight now, probably size 4-6??

It becomes a problem when you order online as PPs have said and can't try things on in these Covid days. I can't understand why it's not organised. I can't order for my teeny tiny sister - is she a 6 or 8 or 10?

Yeah it's been an issue for a while for those of us who are an 8 because when they make the 8's a size 12, well, there's no size 4 for us to buy. I wish shops would stop pandering to people who are an unhealthy weight.

I buy regularly from M&S and find their size 14 is usually right for me. Primark and H&M would be usually too tight in a 14 and Sainsbury's 14s are quite big.
The problem is lack of consistency in sizing. I have several pairs of M&S super skinny jeans. As they are so skinny I size up to 16 but sometimes they are loose, sometimes tight, sometimes too short, sometimes too long. I recently bought basic M&S cardigans in the sale and they are quite tight but other knitwear is bigger.

@Clymene

Ah I see the MN teeny tinies are out in force.

Yep!

"Even the tiniest sizes are just so baggy on me......👀......."

I’m a 14 everywhere.

How does that fit in? Is it cuts that vary?

I see people have a chip of their shoulders over women of a smaller size. No idea why. Vanity sizing is wrong. If they want to increase sizing of clothes then they also need to start making more size 4s and 2s to accommodate all sizing. I'm sure that would give the haters a chance to froth in their knickers when a women dare declares she is now a new size 2.

Victoria Wood talked about this in one of her shows. She said she was an 18 or a 16 in clothes apart from Marks and Spencer,where she was a size 12 as they don’t want to upset anybody! 😂

Here are extracts from the official size guides for Zara and M&S. Zara is the top one, M&S below.

@SOLINVICTUS

M&S I find quite true to size. Next, on the other hand.... Still, better than the other way round. These are the sizes of my trouser collection: M&S 12 long Boden 12 long Hobbs 12 long Jaeger 12 long Next 10 regular Zara 16 H&M don't do trousers long enough

Tops:
M&S 14
Boden 14
...you get the picture...
H&M 18 or XXL
Zara XXL.

Yes, Zara are ridiculous - all their sizes are tiny.

French Connection too, though I haven't bought anything there for years.

And Uniqlo. Sometimes it seems as if Uniqlo 'S/M/L' sizing is based in the smaller Japanese population, sometimes a random garment will be huge for its stated size.

@Belinda554

I was looking at some vintage marks and Spencer’s clothes a while back...teeny tiny (size 12) It’s shocking how much bigger people have become.

It’s not inconsistent sizing, it is vanity sizing.

This is borne out by the number of people claiming to be a size 6 or 8. I don’t remember those sizes even existing in the 20s when I started buying clothes. Sizing started at 10 in those days.

It’s also interesting that half of MN claims to be those sizes yet they’re always the ones left at the end of the sales!

70s ffs, not 20s!