AIBU to think 80% furlough pay should be topped up ?

[MangoMask]

Ok I have Nc’d for this. I’m not sure if how I’m feeling is justified or not and would appreciate opinions.

Firstly can I say I totally understand in many many ways I am lucky to still have a job. People are going through so much worse, and I really hope I don’t sound entitled/ungrateful but I’m just panicking and fed up as this all came totally out of the blue today.

I work for a small charity, only 8 staff and 300 volunteers. I love the place and what we do. Work wise I’ve never been happier. I don’t get paid much - £20k and I turned down a £5k pay rise in September deferring it until next August when my youngest leaves school and any extra help I get from the government ends. I thought this would help save the charity money. I do really care about the place.

I was briefly furloughed on full pay last March for 6 weeks but otherwise have luckily continued to work throughout. And I work hard, really hard because I love it and I want to. I do 15-20 more hours a week than I’m paid for. I don’t mind low pay or long hours at all but I guess I need to feel valued ? And I have up til now.

This morning my boss rang and told me as of today I am going to be fully furloughed at 80% pay. The charity aren’t going to top it up.

This means over £300 a month less pay. Things are already really tight financially here. I have an 18yr old 6th former and a 20yr old who’s not going back to University this term and it makes a huge difference to my food bills. We don’t really have any spare money each month. So I’m feeling scared about how we’re going to manage. I get no help from their dad and he hasn’t had contact with them in 4 years. I just feel so responsible for everything and our belts are so tight already I don’t know what to do. I just keep crying today.

The reason why I’m pissed off is the section I’m in charge of, managed to take £80k over budget despite the chaos of the last year. It’s rare I blow my own trumpet but I put everything into achieving that. So I keep being told we actually have ‘excess funds’ because they weren’t expecting me to do so well. They’re spending £10k on non vital improvements this month alone.

I’ve offered to use all my holiday (18 days from last year which i never got a chance to take and 25 days this year) so that I could still get paid the same - but apparently it doesn’t work like that.
I know I’m just feeling scared today so don’t know if I’m being entitled / unfair or whatever. I guess knowing they have more than enough to top the pay up, but are choosing not to makes me feel unvalued and a bit shit.

So AIBU thinking they could have topped up the 20% ?

*OPs work can afford it though. They are £80k in profit and spent £10k on non essential repairs.

I think th charity commission would take a dim view on charities who are in profit but not paying staff.*

I think the charity commission would think the opposite. The charity is perfectly within their rights to not top up furlough and I don’t think it’s a good use of charity funds. Equally the charity is in profit - what does that mean? If it means they’ve exceeded the expected income then they still shouldn’t be paying more to top up furlough, they need to be thinking long term and strategically about the survival of the charity. Income is going to be severely affected for at least this and next year. The money they have made this year will need to be used to actually run the charity and to also ensure they reserves are in line with charity commission guidelines. The charity commission will be far more concerned about reserves running below advised levels

It’s only the OP who says they are spending money on non essentials - again likely investment in something that needs to be done or needs investment to minimise costs longer term

OP your mistakes are not taking the £5k pay rise. You are a professional, you are not there to do the charity a favour - although it sounds like you did it to ensure you kept your benefits. The charity should not have allowed you to do that. I would not allow my staff to not take a pay rise.

You need to take your holiday. It is essential: you are doing nobody any favours not taking it. We allow 5 days to be carried. Any more left over and you lose it which is quite right

You should not be working 15-20 hours over your contract. This is insane. Whilst I don’t advise worming to rule if you don’t want to you need to consider this carefully

I feel really strongly about the fact you did not take a pay rise due to how it would affect your benefit.

Honestly, that in my opinion is incredibly immoral, and almost, if not on, the same level as benefit fraud.

Arghh, I'm really sorry I seem to have offended so many people.

When I posted I was shocked, upset and worried because I wasn't expecting to be furloughed at all. I'd love to still be working and I'm gutted I can't right now. But I'm immensely grateful to still be employed at all. I don't want to get paid however much for just 'sitting around', I just want to work, please understand that.

I suppose for the last few months all I've heard is how we have 'excess funds' and there are rules about how much we are allowed to have. I'm thrilled for the charity because that means we are in a strong position going forward despite everything during the last year. That will be life saving to some of the people we help.

But these funds won't be spent on that, they have been actively finding things on the site to spend it on to reduce the balance. I'm sorry if I thought that might mean they could top up the salary. I didn't expect it, just hoped. It's not in return for working hard because I always have and always will do again anyway. I don't think I'm a fool just passionate about what I do. But I understand others disagree.

Anyway I really appreciate the hints and tips on how to save money and tomorrow I'll look into the ins and outs of what I can do work wise.

YABU. Why turn down a 25% pay rise during precarious times? To incorrectly think your job was 100% safe and turn it down when you live just within your means is crazy. They are a business and will behave as such, for a grown woman with commitments you sound very naive. Time to get your 20y.o contributing - he should be able to earn some money whilst working online towards his degree.

@BungleandGeorge she is FT and does 15-20 hours extra so I presume nearly 50 hours a week for 20K

Why should they top up the 80% when you’re not required to work. Be grateful they’ve furloughed you rather than let you go!

Covid’s been around almost a year now, we all knew there would be further waves, you’ve had that time to find a more secure job or save (you could also have accepted the pay rise they offered and saved that, knowing we’re on the brink of economic crisis and you have kids to look after).

@Mammyloveswine not so easy, we have two of similar age at home, both have previous work experience, neither of them can get a job in any of the local shops, cafes, etc, they have had a few hours casual work. They have been applying since the last lockdown. Getting a job, any job right now where we live is extremely tough.

@Mintjulia

When furloughed, you don't have commuting costs. You don't need to buy work lunches or work clothes.

Also while we are in this mess, you can't spend on holidays or eating out or sports or entertaining, or travelling to see family etc.

You will need to heat your home, but generally you shouldn't be worse off on 80%.

I hate seeing this stuff rolled out.

For many people, their commuting costs are zero or near zero. Plenty of people take a packed lunch to work with them (particularly those without lots of spare cash). And nobody I know spends a significant proportion of their salary on work clothes - I buy around 1 new work dress a year, and a couple of pairs of tights.

If you are someone who lives frugally on a low income to start with, these expenses are unlikely to make any significant impact at all.

OP - next time you are offered a pay rise, take it. It's not altruistic to turn down money because it'll impact your benefits, and having a higher salary will give more benefits than just the immediate take home pay. It'll impact your pension, your potential redundancy package (kind of important in a recession!), your next pay rise (your employer will always use your current salary as the starting point) etc....

Ask for your promised pay rise now, don't be fooled into thinking working for a charity means it's ok to be exploited, or exploit others, it was not a good idea to turn down your pay rise, government benefits change and you loose out. Hope you can get it sorted.

Sign up for something like Deliveroo or parcel delivery? Or get the kids to

In the nicest possible way, YABU. Employers not topping up is the one thing that keeps most of them going and enables them to furlough you. It is better to be on 80% furlough with a job to go back to, than to be on the dole trying to sort out UC.

You can volunteer or work elsewhere if you are furloughed, some people have earned way more than they normally would, by taking on more jobs.

You turned down a pay rise.

Too late to ask for it now.

HTH

I know of charities that have topped up (I’m in the sector) and I really question it. If you could turn down a £5k rise you can lose £4K pro rata for a few months without too many problems. You might need to put it on plastic.

OP - are you sure that the net difference will be £300 a month?

You may pay less tax than you think as we are getting towards the end of the tax year and your tax is calculated based on you earning the same amount each month; going down to 80% of salary might mean you pay less tax than you expect during the furloughed months.

Secondly, you really should expect some amount of board from your University aged son. He may be paying full rent at his Uni accommodation but he's not feeding himself at the moment. He should be able to bung into the pot the amount he eats, from his student loan, as he would need to if he were away.

I think you are getting an unnecessarily hard time on here OP.

I think companies who choose to furlough when they don't really need to, to get Government cash, but don't top up so their employees lose out, are really immoral. Just because lots of companies are doing this doesnt make it ok. We have people on here saying you shouldnt be upset because they are only getting 80% from their company who have not been financially hit - that just makes their employers shit.

You tried to do a nice thing by turning down the payrise (even if you also felt there were benefits to you) (and the person saying that this is like benefit fraud is crazy, people make decisions on what they do with their pay to get the best overall income all the time, like the endless threads suggesting people near tax thresholds put extra in their pensions to avoid paying the tax, no different and nobody criticises them, they are actively encouraged to do it).

I understand why you are hurt OP - it feels like they aren't valuing you and everything you have done. Hope you are ok.

OP I totally get it. I also work for a charity which I really believe in. It puts you at an instant disadvantage as bosses see you as someone to be taken for granted. I hope things work out OK in the end, I know exactly how you are feeling. Remember, at the end of the day its better to be a decent person than a piss taker. You have a lot of integrity.

@HeckyPeck

Companies/organisations just can’t afford a top up. I think you’re being unreasonable to assume they can

OPs work can afford it though. They are £80k in profit and spent £10k on non essential repairs.

I think th charity commission would take a dim view on charities who are in profit but not paying staff.

This. I can completely see why you feel as you do. Your employer has shown you that they don’t value you. That’s more of a kick in the teeth than the financial loss. If I were you I’d be starting a job hunt when we’re back to some kind of normality.

I would have said YANBU, but for turning down the payrise, I do think you are being a bit unreasonable, as that would make a difference to how much money you get.

Your 20yo is presumably getting a student loan, so could contribute towards food shopping?

I do think they should let you take your holiday at full pay during this period, though- as otherwise they will only have to pay that out afterwards as well!

Wow, that's quite low pay for what you are doing- also why on earth did you turn down £5k pay rise???

I've worked in the charity sector for a long time and just got out of it. Knowing the sector so well, you should take what you can re; pay rises as funding is always an issue.

Chnandlerbong - I wouldn't dream of asking for the pay rise under these circumstances. And I doubt I'll get it next August now either and yes that's clearly my own fault but that's ok because I'm already expecting it. That's not trying to be a martyr or naive, it's realistic and I understand it.

I'm no do gooder (and now feeling like an evil grasping moron) but does no one get that sometimes how you feel about what you do is more important than what you earn normally ? I was a shell of a person when I started this job, with the self esteem of a gnat. I now feel like a proper useful human again and I'm hugely thankful to them. So if I repay that in extra hours that's still worth it to me.

Yes that means we don't have much spare money but that's ok because normally we 'manage'. The kids see the difference in who I am and they're proud of me. That's enough for me.

Anyway I'm sorry, last thing I meant to do was be insensitive to others and I clearly have been.

@MotherOfDragonite

It is legal for you to do other paid work or voluntary work while furloughed. Do something else temporarily to fill the gap if possible!

This is getting a bit tedious now, no one said it wasn't legal, the point is that your employer has to allow it and the OP says she's doesn't think she's allowed to

Sorry I read your hours incorrectly, if you’re doing that many extra unpaid and they’ve made a profit I can see why you’d be annoyed. I stand by the advice to contact tax credits as you will be entitled to more money. If they’ve agreed your pay rise as far as I’m concerned that’s a binding agreement and you should expect them to honour it, especially if they’ve made a profit. Not every company is on hard times..

YABU.

I’m furloughed, too, and I regard a 20% pay cut as perfectly reasonable price to pay for the government effectively keeping my job in existence until our industry gets back on its feet. I’m saving £ several hundred a month on the cost of going to work (petrol, coffees, bought lunches, office collections etc etc).

Sometimes you learn the hard way that no one will thank you for the extra stuff you did at work. Stop working the extra hours for free and as soon as you can take that pay rise. I learnt the hard way that doing too much for a business gets you no where. They dont treat you special and you are no more than a cog in the machine. Luckily I was 23 when I learnt this and I've never looked back

Being furloughed after working your socks off must hurt. your employer doesn’t need you as much as you think they should. So even though you are working 60ish hours per week for £20k, you are basically a “busy fool”. If you have brought in all this extra cash, and are still furlough material, your employer has been a bit short sighted.

Value yourself in future. Nobody else will, that’s for sure.