AIBU to think 80% furlough pay should be topped up ?

[MangoMask]

Ok I have Nc’d for this. I’m not sure if how I’m feeling is justified or not and would appreciate opinions.

Firstly can I say I totally understand in many many ways I am lucky to still have a job. People are going through so much worse, and I really hope I don’t sound entitled/ungrateful but I’m just panicking and fed up as this all came totally out of the blue today.

I work for a small charity, only 8 staff and 300 volunteers. I love the place and what we do. Work wise I’ve never been happier. I don’t get paid much - £20k and I turned down a £5k pay rise in September deferring it until next August when my youngest leaves school and any extra help I get from the government ends. I thought this would help save the charity money. I do really care about the place.

I was briefly furloughed on full pay last March for 6 weeks but otherwise have luckily continued to work throughout. And I work hard, really hard because I love it and I want to. I do 15-20 more hours a week than I’m paid for. I don’t mind low pay or long hours at all but I guess I need to feel valued ? And I have up til now.

This morning my boss rang and told me as of today I am going to be fully furloughed at 80% pay. The charity aren’t going to top it up.

This means over £300 a month less pay. Things are already really tight financially here. I have an 18yr old 6th former and a 20yr old who’s not going back to University this term and it makes a huge difference to my food bills. We don’t really have any spare money each month. So I’m feeling scared about how we’re going to manage. I get no help from their dad and he hasn’t had contact with them in 4 years. I just feel so responsible for everything and our belts are so tight already I don’t know what to do. I just keep crying today.

The reason why I’m pissed off is the section I’m in charge of, managed to take £80k over budget despite the chaos of the last year. It’s rare I blow my own trumpet but I put everything into achieving that. So I keep being told we actually have ‘excess funds’ because they weren’t expecting me to do so well. They’re spending £10k on non vital improvements this month alone.

I’ve offered to use all my holiday (18 days from last year which i never got a chance to take and 25 days this year) so that I could still get paid the same - but apparently it doesn’t work like that.
I know I’m just feeling scared today so don’t know if I’m being entitled / unfair or whatever. I guess knowing they have more than enough to top the pay up, but are choosing not to makes me feel unvalued and a bit shit.

So AIBU thinking they could have topped up the 20% ?

Does anyone know if you are allowed to do other paid work if you’re getting furlough pay ? I was told not but maybe I’m wrong on that as well.

You can so long as the terms of your employment allow you to.

Most people would find some empathy for anyone saying they were struggling due to a 20% pay cut - especially one lasting for months.

Many others ARE in a worse position but it's not a race to the bottom.

OP, somewhere on here is a long running '£10 a day' thread which talks about ways people have found to earn extra £ from home. Worth reading to see if anything there stands out to you as a way to make up the shortfall?

@Lovemusic33 also makes a fair point about not forgetting there will be some expenses you might save by not working...

Thank you for all your comments, I'm taking it all on board good and bad !
With regards to the pay rise, we actually would have been worse off with the reduction in tax credits plus a bursary from the school for bus fares and a maintenance grant for the one at University.
I'm really sorry if anyone feels this is fiddling the system, again the last thing I mean to do. I really struggled to even begin claim them for 18 months after my ex left because I had too much pride. He gave up work so he didn't have to pay maintenance (clearly no pride 😂)
That's why I love my job and work hard because it's given me some self worth back.
The kids are both looking for work and I'm very proud of both of them.

You turned down a £5K pay rise? Really??

What's the truth behind that decision?

I think 80pc is generous and the 3 million excluded should be receiving something rather than more for those already benefiting.

Yes, you can work.

Do you rent? If so, you might be better on UC.

Companies/organisations just can’t afford a top up. I think you’re being unreasonable to assume they can

OPs work can afford it though. They are £80k in profit and spent £10k on non essential repairs.

I think th charity commission would take a dim view on charities who are in profit but not paying staff.

It’s your family it’s your money you have to do what works for you. Sit down and figure o it savings you’ll make by WFH or expenses you may occur(my fridge is costing me a fortune😂) charging older children rent isn’t a bad thing to do helps you and helps them budget.

You can do other paid work on furlough, I think the main stipulation to that is that you're available to return to your main job when they need you. On furlough you have to be ready to return as soon as they ask, I believe.

You can request holiday leave on furlough.

If there is any work you could still be doing for them at home then you can request flexible furlough rather than full furlough, they pay in full for the hours you do work then.

@Tumbleweed101

You can do other paid work on furlough, I think the main stipulation to that is that you're available to return to your main job when they need you. On furlough you have to be ready to return as soon as they ask, I believe.

You can request holiday leave on furlough.

If there is any work you could still be doing for them at home then you can request flexible furlough rather than full furlough, they pay in full for the hours you do work then.

The other work option is entirely up to your employer, I haven't been on furlough but I have family members who have and they have had to twiddle their thumbs because their employers forbid working anywhere else.

Quite frankly there is unfortunately a moral here.

You must take holiday - you’re fortunate they’ve let you carry over, and also don’t work extra hours for free. Employers will always take what they can!

It was your choice to refuse a payrise as you would have lost out in other ways. To be honest I don’t sit well with that decision, you are effectively taking taxpayer money unnecessarily. You also choose to work part time not full time?- you obviously have the spare time so again I think you need to be grateful for the fact you’re furloughed, not redundant.

I don’t think many people would be happy to hear that someone working for a charity is being topped up so I can see why they’ve made the decision they have.

Some arseholes on here today.

You're perfectly justified to be nervous and worried, OP. It's not a race to the bottom, despite what some of these answers might suggest.

Your 20 year old must be getting a student loan of nearly £8000 per annum assuming he's not studying in London where he'd get over £11000?
Why on earth can't he contribute £250- 300 a month towards his keep?

I think you sound lovely, and completely understand the decision you made about the payrise. At the thresholds of different tax/benefit entilement brackets, a small rise can actually leave you worse off. As a single parent, you needed to think about that.

I just wanted to add a positive experience. I had a sudden salary reduction a few years ago, and I had to economize. By changing where I shopped to the discounters, making cheap batch cooked vegetarian meals like bean chillis and dals, cycling instead of using the car, never buying food or drink out, and looking ruthlessly at every expenditure, I made it work. I appreciate that not everyone has the 'give' in their budget that my careless spending had led to, but I was surprised how much money I was able to save without losing too much in the way of standard of living. I really hope the same will be true for you.

You're a real idiot to turn down a pay rise and not take your holidays. They're your employers - when push comes to shove, they don't a shit about you as they've now proved. And stop working unpaid hours - that 20 hours a week you do for nothing would be a part-time job for someone else.

Whether you can work or not depends on your contract and your furlough agreement - it is not guaranteed that you can work. Check both out before you do any other kind of work, please.

Posters who are saying it is a given and a definite that you can work clearly haven't been in the position where their agreement tells them they cannot work elsewhere. I actually had legal advice on this as I lost additional income because of it - it is correct that your employer can request you do not work elsewhere - so double check.

You shouldn’t have turned down the pay rise so you could continue on benefits; that isn’t acceptable and it’s now come back to bite you on the arse.

YABU and unfair, and yes, you can work elsewhere as long as your current employer agrees to it.

Leaving aside the fact that they’re a charity, why should they top it up in the first place? They’re a business, looking after business needs. It’s irrelevant if you’ve made them more money than expected as that money will be earmarked for business needs.

yabu but do they not owe you holiday pay or anything from last year they cant just write it off

Does it always have to be such a race to the bottom?

No, but a dose of reality can help sometimes.

It's worth considering how this sort of post complaining about furlough pay will be received on a public forum. There are record numbers of redundancies already this year and unemployment is three times the national average.

Then there are the millions of sole traders who are going under. My self employed business is dead in the water. I'm sorry if that comes across as angry and bitter but everything's shit and most people are finding it tough.

I'd go back to them and ask to understand how it does work in terms of holiday pay - along with quoting some of the guidance - and have a frank conversation about exactly how difficult this will be.

It makes a difference if you are furloughed for 4 weeks, or for 8-12 weeks. You might feel better if you could agree e.g. 4 weeks furlough, 2 weeks holiday, and back at work Week 7.

Is it an all-or-nothing situation? Can you be flexibly furloughed and just work part-time hours - would that improve the pay situation?

I don't think you can expect them to top up your salary, but you can offer solutions and try to understand what would best assist them to assist you...

Yes, you can work elsewhere and volunteer whilst Furloughed, although be aware that you current employer can call you back in and you have to be available.

You also absolutely can take holidays whilst Furloughed, which would have to be paid at your full daily rate.

I wouldn't expect them to top up your wages - I would expect them to offer to Furlough you at the offered new salary rate, and i would ask for this.

So, yes, back to them to ask:

For the new salary to start immediately, so that you are furloughed under that.
For Annual Leave to be used.

That said, if you are on Universal credit, this should move to help compensate for the drop in income.

I would also be expecting your Student son to be parting with some of his funding for food. He'd be spending it if he was away, so he should be anyway.

@MangoMask

KaptainKaveman - No of course I don’t think you’re being cruel. It’s just come as a total shock today as I had no idea I’d be furloughed. I really do understand how much worse other people have it. RaspberryCoulis - I’d much prefer to be at work and thought I would be tbh. I would try and get another job (anything) to make up the difference but I don’t think I’m allowed to. I don’t even think I can volunteer anywhere whilst on furlough but I’m going to look into that. Last thing I want to do is be sitting around at home.

I’m pretty sure you can work elsewhere on furlough

Are you getting £5000 of extra help from the government? If you're not, then why would you turn down the pay rise?

And what's this nonsense of worming 20 unpaid hours every week? Why are you doing that? You may work for a charity but you are an employee. You are not a volunteer. You need to be paid for the work you do. Still doing free work.

You've martyred yourself for years. You've turned down a pay rise, which probably would have been more than what you get in benefits. You've got grown up children so you arent young. It is time for you to grow up, be professional and start to value the work you provide.

Regarding furlough, 80% is generous.

I’m sorry you will be short every month but I hope you can find a way to bridge the gap.

Whilst you are at home not working, employers still have to pay your pension contributions (if you’re in a pension) and also Employers National Insurance which is nearly 14%.

You turned down a 25% payrise on a quite low salary to begin with, and gave them 18 days of your holiday time.

Madness.

You might work for a charity, but it's still a job and you have to think of your own future, too. They'd lay you off in a heartbeat if they had to. I hope you can see that now.