AIBU to think 80% furlough pay should be topped up ?

[MangoMask]

Ok I have Nc’d for this. I’m not sure if how I’m feeling is justified or not and would appreciate opinions.

Firstly can I say I totally understand in many many ways I am lucky to still have a job. People are going through so much worse, and I really hope I don’t sound entitled/ungrateful but I’m just panicking and fed up as this all came totally out of the blue today.

I work for a small charity, only 8 staff and 300 volunteers. I love the place and what we do. Work wise I’ve never been happier. I don’t get paid much - £20k and I turned down a £5k pay rise in September deferring it until next August when my youngest leaves school and any extra help I get from the government ends. I thought this would help save the charity money. I do really care about the place.

I was briefly furloughed on full pay last March for 6 weeks but otherwise have luckily continued to work throughout. And I work hard, really hard because I love it and I want to. I do 15-20 more hours a week than I’m paid for. I don’t mind low pay or long hours at all but I guess I need to feel valued ? And I have up til now.

This morning my boss rang and told me as of today I am going to be fully furloughed at 80% pay. The charity aren’t going to top it up.

This means over £300 a month less pay. Things are already really tight financially here. I have an 18yr old 6th former and a 20yr old who’s not going back to University this term and it makes a huge difference to my food bills. We don’t really have any spare money each month. So I’m feeling scared about how we’re going to manage. I get no help from their dad and he hasn’t had contact with them in 4 years. I just feel so responsible for everything and our belts are so tight already I don’t know what to do. I just keep crying today.

The reason why I’m pissed off is the section I’m in charge of, managed to take £80k over budget despite the chaos of the last year. It’s rare I blow my own trumpet but I put everything into achieving that. So I keep being told we actually have ‘excess funds’ because they weren’t expecting me to do so well. They’re spending £10k on non vital improvements this month alone.

I’ve offered to use all my holiday (18 days from last year which i never got a chance to take and 25 days this year) so that I could still get paid the same - but apparently it doesn’t work like that.
I know I’m just feeling scared today so don’t know if I’m being entitled / unfair or whatever. I guess knowing they have more than enough to top the pay up, but are choosing not to makes me feel unvalued and a bit shit.

So AIBU thinking they could have topped up the 20% ?

Was the maintenance grant and travel subsidy worth more than the £5k payrise? No sliding scale?

Even if you had paid into a salary sacrifice pension?

I'd advise against making a decision like that again, OP.

Unless your employment contract prohibits you from working, you are able to take up temporary work. Even if your contract has a standard clause in, you may be able to get them to waive it temporarily.

If your university student child would normally be paying for their own food, they should be contributing whilst at home.

Are you able to claim any other benefits if your income does drop by 20%?

If you aren't able to work in another job, you could consider volunteering (you said you would prefer to be busy).

OP you sound naive but lovely and I'm sorry you're going to struggle financially.

In terms of not topping up the 80%, I think this might me more something we see more of in Lockdown 3. Several of the small/medium size firms that I work for as a self-employed consultant have said they're not topping up their employees this time around. They think we were locked down too long the first time, that the second lockdown was pointless and, with Whitty saying we could have restrictions next winter, they feel we could be stuck in an endless cycle of lockdowns and don't want their employees getting too comfortable sitting at home on full pay. I'm absolutely not saying this is the right approach but it's definitely a common theme I'm picking up on from business owners.

OP you sound so lovely and I wish you the very best.

You have held your head high even when some posters have gone very low with their comments.

Are your adult sons looking for work? I know it’s much harder to find jobs right now but surely they can try to help as they’re living with you?

You chose to defer a pay rise, to enable you to play the benefits system. Now you’re whinging that 80% for staying at home isn’t enough...

Jesus it’s not a bottomless pit of free money you know.

Just wanted to come on and give you some OP - i think you are getting some good advice on here in terms of what your entitled to but some posters dont need to be so mean to a single mum who is clearly very worried and struggling. You would think the others who have been furloughed and had to take a decrease in income would be more sympathetic - but i guess misery likes company!

Id be worried and crying too - we cant always look on the bright side straight away OP- we are not all Pollyanna's. Especially when your income is planned down to the last penny. Are you saving any money on travel OP? Can you save money by re-thinking your food plan i.e. shop at budget places if you dont already, tell your dc's there will be a certain amount of snacks and when it's gone it's gone? I see you say they are looking for work which is good.

Your ex sounds like a gobshite and looking after the elderley dp's sounds really tough.

You seem like a nice person, refusing the £5k pay rise because you wouldn't benefit thereby saving the charity some money. However, even charities work on a business footing as you are seeing by their choices to improve their facilities rather than topping up your salary.

To be honest, the idea of working tax credits and child tax credits is not to save the charity money. You should have taken the rise even though it wasn't personally benefiting you, rather than refusing it and relying on tax payers'/government money.

The charity has saved money so far through you deferring your payrise. I would explain to them the difficulty this has placed you in and ask if you can have that pay rise now. That way you will get 80% of the rise. This would be £333 a month before tax, so, even after tax, you would be almost covered for what you have lost.

It is always short sighted to refuse a pay rise op even if it is very small and won't benefit you initially. Any further pay rises will be improved by each small increment.

I guess this is the thing I don't get @MangoMask

I do 15-20 more hours a week than I’m paid for.

Things were already tight and yet you were putting in 15-20 hours per week for nothing, when you say money was so tight - certainly you could have been getting paid at a part-time job elsewhere for those 15-20 hours?

And no, I wouldn't expect a charity to top up the 80%.

@FAQs

You turned down the £5k pay rise because it would have taken you over the Government threshold for financial assistance?

^^ THIS So you decided that we would all contribute to your household rather than taking it from the charity. Thanks. I love other people spending my money

OP my understanding of the furlough scheme was that you are allowed to take up a second employment but outside of your work hours ie if your furloughed job was mon - fri 9-5 you're not allowed to do any shifts then but you could get a job say 6pm - 10pm for example maybe nights in Tesco or food delivery driver? I was furloughed in March and in Scotland so you'd need to read up on the rules now and check.

I don't regret doing extra for a minute but yes it's maybe made me question things going forward. I just thought we were a close knit team but I could be deluded

Unfortunately, as you're finding out, few business are ever that "close knit" when it comes to the bottom line - and many charities are most definitely businesses

I get what you said about the pay rise affecting your other grants, etc, but in principle the same applies here; by all means turn it down if you genuinely wish to, but don't expect it to make any difference if the axe needs to fall

Why is it that the nice comments make you cry 😭? Thank you though.
I see what everyone is saying (pretty unanimously) and realise I must have made a mistake with the pay rise. Maybe it doesn't seem like it but I really was trying to do the right thing.

Anyway believe it or not I feel much better after this because at least I know I was being unreasonable now. And instead of focusing on feeling sorry for myself I'll pull myself up and find away through the next few months.

A genuine thank you. 💐

My 18 year old works 18 hours at a fast food chain (as well as college) maybe your two can help out?

@ivykaty44

I would try and get another job (anything) to make up the difference but I don’t think I’m allowed to

yes you can

though the mn judge and jury don't like it, but they aint paying your bills and its legal and above board

It's not about what the MN judge and jury think, what an odd comment. The rules are quite clear, you can get another paid job IF your employer allows it, it's easy to understand and not open to any kind of interpretation.

Please don't give advice that might lead to someone getting in to trouble with their employer

RE: you turned down a patriae, because you were trying to do the right thing.

You weren't doing the right thing by the tax payer!!

I don't think a lot of the posters on here understand how screwed up the country us financially. We are in unprecedented levels of debt for piece time, and you are worried you are "only" getting 80% of your salary for doing absolutely nothing!!

YANBU, and one of the posters on here that will be getting a very rude awakening in the coming years.

Your kids should both take jobs to help. Many students have part time if not full times job at university/sixth form, whether or not they 'need them' if only because it looks good when you apply post-uni for jobs. They should be supporting you as you have spent the last 16+ years supporting them.

You were very silly to turn down the pay rise. However, you clearly realise that. Just remember this for next time that a charity is a business like any other. You also need to remember that;

A) Businesses will make improvements if they want atm because chances are the jobs market is going to be awful in the next year or so, so they CAN be arseholes to their staff as there will be 2 dozen more lined up who would do the job on a lower wage and;

B) Put yourself first. No one else will right now.

Next time you feel guilty for asking for a pay rise/being offered one remember that the Salvation Army top exec earns £150K a year.

At 18 and 20 do you not charge board? Or at least ask for help with the food bill? I’d been paying board since I was 15 - brought my own house at 20 and pay my own bills now - I’m on 17k a year.

I don’t get why your complaining when you turned down a 5k pay rise? I almost couldn’t read pay that.

‘No I don’t want a pay rise.. hang on you’ve left me 20% down in wages for sitting on home doing nothing’

Perhaps ask about the pay rise again as that will bump your income up while on furlough if they accept it.

Oh hang on I’ve just read you turned down a pay rise because it would effect your benefits

I’m leaving this now. I’m in 17k- don’t earn any benefits and still manage to pay my bills (with a one year old added on now!)

Get your kids to start giving you some of their money.. since I’m guessing at 18 & 20 they either have jobs or claim some form of benefit also.

I think it's fair.

I'm self employed and my business has suffered massively since March. I have claimed the self employment grant which is 80% of the average of your last 3 years profits. It's taxable so after I've put away the tax and NI on it, it's more like 50%

This is the reality for many people

Others-many- have been excluded from the self employment grants and have recieved nothing.

Most of us are spending less on going out/ clothes/communing costs/holidays so have some breathing space there.

I don't think your situation is so bad.

You still have a job at the end of this?

I don't think charity money should be spent on paying you your full wage to not work at all. If people thought that's what their donations were spent on, they would soon stop donating.

The university child might well be paying for uni accommodation.

My dsis has volunteered for charities for years. Most of them are ruthless. You’re working for a business op. Never lose sight of that.
When I retired I was constantly asked if I would work in a charity shop a couple of times a week.
No way.

I think if you do things such as turn down 25% pay rises, work oodles of unpaid overtime and don't take weeks of holiday, you risk being seen as a soft touch in the workplace. Your employers will simply regard you as someone they can treat as badly as they like and you will soldier on. So definatley not someone they even need to consider topping up on furlough.

@Ch3rish

oh I didn't expect the mn judge and jury to be along so soon

perhaps have a look at the furlough rules yourself

Your DD will either be getting a student loan if she is still a student but just not going back to Uni or if she is unemployed can claim Universal credit which is currently £80 a month higher than normal due to covid. Whichever of these applies to her she can contribute towards food surely ??