to think Derbyshire police need to read the LAW and understand that you can't fine people when they are not breaking it

[chomalungma]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

Surrounded by police, treated like a criminal for driving 5 miles to a beauty spot for a walk.

It is not illegal to drive to exercise.

You are highly unlikely to catch Covid walking outdoors whether 5 or 50 miles away. The virus mainly spreads indoors by close contact with most people catching it from relatives and close friends or work colleagues they have been indoors with. All this policing of people's walks is a distraction from things that really increase Covid and serious crime

Derbyshire Police's response was also outrageous - they said: "It is up to each individual officer on a case-by-case basis to decide what is reasonable as the legislation does not proscribe a distance

Yes, I couldn't quite believe this. Don't they have any legal advisors? Are they furloughed or what.

@2Rebecca

You are highly unlikely to catch Covid walking outdoors whether 5 or 50 miles away. The virus mainly spreads indoors by close contact with most people catching it from relatives and close friends or work colleagues they have been indoors with. All this policing of people's walks is a distraction from things that really increase Covid and serious crime

You are highly unlikely to catch Covid walking outdoors whether 5 or 50 miles away Exactly. If I walk the crowded narrow pavements of my suburb for 1 hour daily walking exercise, I will pass at least 100 people. I in 50 people have covid-19 apparently at the moment. So that is 2 chances to catch Covid-19 at least from walking the crowded narrow pavements I can access from my front door, passing joggers and cyclists puffing heavily in close proximity, as well as other walkers talking and laughing with their own households. If I walk in the countryside I pass maybe 5 people and the footpaths and country lanes are wider. My risk of Covid-19 is immediately reduced at least 20-fold. Of course I could have an accident or break down on the way, but the chances of that are very much lower than the chances of meeting the 1 in 50 people who have Covid-19 while walking in close proximity on town pavements.

Derbyshire police have been advised by the NPCC and have now admitted to issuing fines based on guidance, and not the law. A fines issued are now being reviewed. They've put a Facebook post on. I've attached pictures here.

Last one

All fines * sorry, auto correct.

They supplied the photo themselves - it is credited to one of them. I don't think that was their smartest move. It suggests a third person is present for a start.

And their latest press release posted by Alec is so disingenuous.

"local" does not appear in the law anyway, just the guidance. Arguably the further you travel the less necessary it was to leave the house, but that's a really difficult thing to make out in relation to the regs as they're drafted. If the reason for leaving the house was exercise with one other person then that justifies the journey according to the law. And the peppermint tea thing is bollocks. Even if it was s picnic then that's not illegal as long as you left the house for reasons of exercise

@ThankyouPeter

They supplied the photo themselves - it is credited to one of them. I don't think that was their smartest move. It suggests a third person is present for a start.

I thought that was a shot of them “having to keep local”. Complete with their curated image Starbucks 🤣

I made the mistake of reading the comments on the Facebook article - so many people have not understood that what they are now saying which is "we were wrong and were issuing fines even when no laws were broken"

@ThankyouPeter

They supplied the photo themselves - it is credited to one of them. I don't think that was their smartest move. It suggests a third person is present for a start.

Or a camera on a timer? My niece is their age and has a couple of little tripods despite not being very into photography (other than selfies!)

Or a photo from a different day, but then they’d credit it to whoever took it.

Frighteningly, I think a lot of people are perfectly ok with people being fined and prosecuted for behaviour that doesn't actually break the law as long as it's behaviour they don't approve of.

Yea and seemingly as long is it's other people whose lives have no effect on them

@AlecTrevelyan006

reverse ferret...

www.derbyshire.police.uk/news/derbyshire/news/news/forcewide/2021/january/force-welcomes-new-guidance-from-npcc-around-about-travelling-during-lockdown/

Force welcomes new guidance from NPCC about travelling during lockdown

All fixed penalty notices during this relevant period that have been issued will be reviewed for compliance. All recipients will be contacted.

Good.

Let's hope it actually lasts.

I wonder if individual officer's performances will be reviewed following this? I doubt it, like I say the police protect each other's incompetencies

I feel like I have stumbled into Groundhog Day or am experiencing a bad case of deja vu. We were having these discussions and situations back in the first lockdown. I hoped that the own village, town or part of city now in the guidance would help to clarify things. It has for some, but not for others. Clearly, people should not be fined or arrested if what they are doing is not illegal. Advice should have been given, details taken. Some people will follow the guidance in the spirit of what we are all being asked to do. For others, we need a temporary change in the law if what we are asking people to do is that important in the anti-Covid effort. Personally, and with regret, I think it is given the current figures. The government is not good at detail or clarity, and that is what we desperately need.

I'm pretty certain that the police training course and professional ongoing training includes the reading and comprehension of statutes, eg the Golden Rule, the Mischief Rule, etc - this is very basic stuff. Many police officers have law degrees.

For this misinterpretation to happen and to result in fixed penalties being issued, there must be some form of wilful policy to deliberately mis-interpret the law so as to produce a certain result, to intimidate the public.

It's really very worrying that some people seem to have absolutely no issues with people being fined for laws that the police have just made up.

Those saying "I agree with the police" and aren't fussed about the police-state style enforcements - presumably because they think they don't breach the guidelines so it'll never happen to them - are shooting themselves in the foot with the stance. Police states are successful because there is an underlying premise that EVERYBODY has or is doing something wrong that they could be punished for - and because it relies on the opinion of an officer, there's no consistency and everyone is at risk of being a criminal.

So where Derbyshire officers think, in their opinion, a local walk with coffee is illegal, and the minions on this thread commend them for that...in a police state the same minions would encounter something they themselves are supposedly doing wrong. Going to your local park you say? End of your street? In your garden? Well what exactly do you need to be outdoors for? Do you have proof that you need fresh air? Oh you're going to the supermarket? For what? Can you prove exactly why you need milk and bread? £200 fine for you...and so on.

See how you're all shooting yourselves in the foot?

@ThankyouPeter

They supplied the photo themselves - it is credited to one of them. I don't think that was their smartest move. It suggests a third person is present for a start.

Or maybe they put their phone on a timer?

Given that response - it seems like they have learnt nothing from March.

Or maybe it was an old photo? I understood they walk together regularly

This is the Police College Guidance

beta.college.police.uk/guidance/covid-19-restrictions/persons

Many police officers have law degrees

Do they?

Very glad they’ve realised they were acting entirely outside of the law, and they’ve clearly been pretty firmly pulled up on it. Still very worried that they thought it was ok to do - it should not take NPCC guidance for them to act within the law!

They’ve certainly left themselves plenty of room to intimidate people in that statement.

I was brought up to be 100% supportive of the police, I’ve got multiple friends who are police officers, I’ve worked as civilian staff myself. This whole incident has pulled the rug out from under me, and made me much more likely to question them in future (I’m sure some posters on here will think me rather naive!).

@OHolyTights

Many police officers have law degrees

Do they?

Well, perhaps not that many, but I certainly know people from my year and so on who went on to work in the police force. Perhaps its not as common as I think!

Apparently the 'law' (I think it is a law, but is it a guideline, idk) also says:
"outdoor exercise. This should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel a short distance within your area to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)" - I think the bit starting 'but...' onwards is highly significant and I think I will print it and put it in my car in case I ever get stopped for driving 5 miles for exercise.